'ne personne' means no one. not sure why the inversion is necessary but as several people have remarked in this forum: no natural language follows the rules of propositional logic ;)
why is 'personne ne veut ceci' also correct, doesn't 'ceci' mean 'this'?
the distinction ceci/cela is much, much weaker than it is in English between this/that. There are regional differences in that respect, too, where i come from (the East of France), they are very close to be interchangeable. To be honest it is still often tough to me in English to know which to pick unless i actively think about it, and i've been speaking English every day for years now.
so it is probably good that you remember this=ceci and that=cela, but i suggest you to remember to be lenient with the way distinction will be made in French.
I correspond with a Frenchman who speaks English fluently and hardly ever makes a mistake. But he will use 'that' and 'this' in ways that aren't quite right. In fact, I can learn a lot about French grammar by observing the mistakes that the French make when speaking English.
I would say that with:
- that -> cela
- this -> ceci
you'll never be wrong in French, but not with the other way around...
Ceci is the contraction of ce+ici (this+here), while cela is the contraction of ce+là (this+there). Ceci is rare in spoken french. Just as là commonly replaces ici in spoken french. Je suis là - I'm here. French speakers tend to use cela to mean either "this" or "that". Ceci only really comes into play when one wants to distinguish between this and that.
Je ne veux pas ceci, je veux cela. I don't want this, I want that.
Read the negations notes, "personne" is the second word that's part of the negation. There is no need for "pas" to be there.
Yeah, you only need 2 negatives, personne and ne, there's no need to use 3 negatives with pas.
If "personne" means "nobody" then why is the "ne" in the sentence even necessary. It seems like a double negative. "Nobody does not want that" meaning they do want it.
"personne" means person. In order for it to mean nobody/no one, you have to add the ne, "ne personne" means nobody, there is no double negative. In French you need two words to create one negative.
"personne" (pronoun) can be used in two basic ways: 1) in a negative sense, "no one" or "nobody", and 2) in a positive sense, "anyone" or "anybody". http://www.larousse.com/en/dictionaries/french-english/personne/59448
"aucun" (adj) is similar, 1) in a negative sense, "none" or "not any", usually (but not always) used in conjunction with "ne", and 2) in a positive sense, meaning "any". www.larousse.com/en/dictionaries/french-english/aucun/645590 As a pronoun, "aucun" is usually translated "none" or "any".
For a more thorough explanation, go to http://french.about.com/ and enter "personne" or "aucun" in the search field.
there's actually quite the difference.
1.) 'personne' is not 'ne personne' (which for some reason beyond my comprehension is inversed and becomes 'personne ne' in the phrase at hand). 'ne personne' indeed means 'no one'
2.) this is just guesswork, but I'd imagine you couldn't use '(ne...)aucun' as a subject because it translates to 'none of ...', meaning that you would have to specify what there is none of. just like in english you couldn't really say "none have seen them" unless the context makes clear what the "none" is referring to. you would say "none of the men have seen them". 'no one' or 'nobody', on the other hand, you can use as a subject.
3.) what follows from 2.) is that you can use aucun to refer to all kinds of things, whereas you can use 'ne...personne' only for human beings (or lack thereof)
I hope that helps (and also that it's correct ;-) )
according to you : personne = nobdoy, none and aucun = nothing, but then what about "il n´y a aucun client dans le supermarché" here aucun is refering to a custome "client", and i am seeing in wordreference that it can be translate as nobody. then any diference between personne and aucun?
in this particular case, 'ne..aucun client' can certainly be translated as nobody, though only if it's a non-literal translation.because, as I understand it, the word 'aucun' (or 'ne ...aucun') is not referring to a customer. you specified what you were referring to by saying "il n'y a aucun CLIENT". you could as well have said 'il n'y a aucun chat dans le supermarché', which would translate to 'there is no cat in the supermarket'. I'm guessing that 'Il n'y a personne dans le supermarché' would mean that there is not a single human being in the supermarket, not even a cashier or a cleaner, that it is completely empty - kinda like saying 'il n'y a aucun humain dans le supermarché'). as for "personne = nobody and aucun = nothing": that is certainly wrong and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. what I meant was that with 'ne...aucun' you need to specify of what there is none. 'ne...personne', on the other hand, already specifies that - there is no person (i.e. nobody).
personne and aucun do not mean the same thing at all. Aucun means that there is a lack of something. You would use these words together, il y en a aucun personne, meaning there is no one. aucun in this context takes the place of pas or rien
English isn't my mother tongue, so can anyone explain me please what are the differences between "none" and "no one"?
None = Not any, not one, not at all, nobody
No one = nobody, not a single person both can be almost interchangeable, althoug the first has a singular connotation and plural for the second one. despite into a sentence both are singular. "how many hearts do you have? None" and "No one knew the correct answer"
None would be referencing the absence of a number. "This sign says apples are here, but there are none." "How many kids do I have? None." No one would be referencing the absence of people. "No one would do this." "No one is here."
I wrote "Anybody doesn't want it." Of course, nobody simpier than do not any, but it couldn't be acceptable at all?
No that would never be right. If you want to use 'anybody' you could frame it as a question. 'Doesn't anybody want that?'
Why is the 'ne' necessary? Is that construction obligatory, or can someone say 'Personne veut cela' as well ?
The French negative construction that means "nobody" (or "no one," or "not anybody," or "not anyone") is ne...personne, just as the basic French negative construction is ne...pas. That's why the ne is necessary.
If you are trying to speak or write French that follows the rules of French grammar, the ne is necessary. Since Duolingo is trying to teach us how to speak/write grammatically correct French, the ne will be necessary in Duo exercises.
Having said that: just as native speakers of English--even those who know the rules of grammar and can apply them to their own speech when necessary--don't always follow the rules in casual speech, neither do native French speakers. I can't speak to the frequency of this in France. I know in Quebec, in everyday speech, you'll almost never hear the ne, only the other negative word. You'll see it in writing, and hear it when people are speaking in a formal context--and it's never wrong to use it. It just gets left out in casual speech.
"no one wants this one" that's what I wrote. i wrote THIS ONE because cela means espesialy this one. it did not accept
Why isn't it "Nobody doesn't want that?" Would "personne veut cela" have the same meaning?
'Nobody doesn't' is a double negative and in English that would mean that somebody does want it...
Because there is only one negative in the French sentence. Ne...personne is the negative expression that means " nobody" (or "no one," or "not anybody," or "not anyone"). It's made up of two words, but it's a single expression, so it's still a single negative when you translate into English.
is there any way to have duolingo get you to translate more English to French? it's much more challenging this way...
Nothing by itself. It is used in French as a flag to alert people to the fact that the sentence contains a negative.
No. (Just to be clear, the word taking the place of pas in this sentence is personne.) There are specific negative constructions in French--ne...pas is the most common, of course, but some others [by no means a complete list] are ne...personne (no one, nobody, not anyone, not anybody), ne...rien (nothing/not anything), and ne...jamais (never, not ever).
Because ne...personne is a complete negative construction in French--you don't need pas. It's easier to see that in sentences like Il n'aime personne ("he doesn't love anybody[/anyone]" or "he loves nobody[/no one]"), where the personne is in the same place in the sentence that pas would be, but when "nobody" or "no one" is the subject of the sentence, personne comes before the verb, but still completes the negative construction.