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https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua

General tips and notes

Iorua
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(work in progress)

<h1>Ham/Han</h1>

Ham is used

  • after a preposition (Jeg ga den til hamI gave it to him)
  • as direct object (Jeg så hamI saw him)
  • as indirect object (Jeg ga ham sjokoladenI gave him the chocolate)

Ham and han are fully interchangeable in the contexts listed above. This has been the case for nearly eighty years. Distinguishing the two in speech is difficult.

In the course you will often see that only ham is in the best translation. This does not mean that they are not equal. Since we have to limit the number of best translations, we often only include ham. However, if you ever get a typo warning for han in a context listed above, send us a report.

<h1>The missing indefinite article</h1>

In English you always include the indefinite article (except in rare cases and in certain expressions). In Norwegian you can often omit the article for countable nouns. When you should and when you cannot omit the indefinite article is something that is natural for a native speaker, and it can be very tricky for a beginner. The following is a set of rules and guidelines that should help:

  • The indefinite article is omitted when the noun characterises rank, occupation, (social) class, position/job, nationality, religion etc.:
    • Hun er lege
    • Abel ble sauegjeter
    • Han er sosialdemokrat og katolikk
    • De valgte ham til konge
  • However, when the predicate noun characterises a person, attributing him/her, the article is used:
    • Han er en tyv
    • […] en løgner
    • […] et fjols
    • […] et svin
  • Also when you add an adjective, you need to use the article:
    • Han er offiser
    • Han er en tapper offiser – You cannot say "Han er tapper offiser"
  • When the subject is det you need the article:
    • Det var en lege
    • Det var en bedrager

The following pairs should hopefully demonstrate important differences between including and omitting the article:

  • Han er klovn: He is a clown by profession
  • Han er en klovn: He is a clown/oaf

  • Han var lærer for meg: He was my teacher (teacher by profession)

  • Han var en lærer for meg: He was teaching/tutoring me, but he was not necessarily a teacher (by profession)

  • Harald er konge: Harald is a king (a monarch)

  • Bach er en konge i musikken

  • Hun er mor (til fem barn): She is a mother

  • Hun er en mor for dem: She is like a mother to them
<h1>The disagreeing adjective agreement</h1>

In the adjective skill you learned that adjectives must agree with the noun: They receive the suffices -t or -e, depending on gender, number and definite form. That is obviously too easy, so let us look at some exceptions:

Let us start by looking at the following sentences:

  • Gutten er frisk
  • Barnet er friskt
  • Barna er friske

Then let us study these:

  • Vitnet ble usikker
  • Barnet er usedvanlig frekk
  • Geniet var gal

In the latter examples the adjectives were not suffixed with -t. This would normally be the case for neuter nouns, but in these sentences the nouns' natural gender were considered. vitnet (the witness, a man or a woman) is considered male or female, hence the agreement with masculine/feminine. The same goes for barnet (the child, a girl or a boy) and other (neuter) nouns that characterise a person. This rule/exception will probably not be a big problem for a learner, but keep it in mind when declining predicatives.

Expressions and idioms

Adjectives are generally left uninflected when they are part of an expression. This is best illustrated with a series of examples:

  • De var redde – They were afraid
  • De var redd for elgen – They were scared of the moose

  • De var klare – They were ready

  • De var klar over problemet – They were aware of the problem

  • Vi er glade – We are happy

  • Vi er glad i å bade – We love to go swimming
  • Vi er glad i deg – We love you

  • Dyret er trygt – The animal is safe

  • Dyret er trygg for rovdyr – The animal is safe from predators
  • Dyret føler seg tryggThe animal feels safe

  • Hestene var frie/fri – They were free

  • Kvinnene er fri for bekymringer
  • Varene er fri for avgifter

  • Er fengslene sikre? – Are the prisons secure/safe?

  • Er dere sikker på det? – Are you sure about that?

  • Pingvinene var tålmodige – The penguins were patient

  • Pingvinene var tålmodig med fotografen – The penguins were patient with the photographer

  • Søstrene er like – The sisters are alike/similar

  • Barna er lik sin far – The children are like their father

You will find many more expressions like these. There are also many verb + predicative combinations that behave the same way.

Sometimes the difference between the inflected and uninflected form changes the meaning of the sentence:

  • Vi har alltid vært glad i dette huset – We have always liked this house
  • Vi har alltid vært glade i dette huset – We have always been happy in(side) this house

  • Vi er ikke enig – We do not agree (with you) (But we agree with each another)

  • Vi er ikke enigeWe do not agree with each other

  • Ola og Kari er gift – Ola and Kari are married (to each other)

  • Ola og Kari er gifte – Ola and Kari are both married (but not to one another)

Unless choosing the wrong form changes the meaning of the sentence, you will most likely always be understood, even if you make a mistake. It is not uncommon for native Norwegians to make these mistakes. Having access to a good dictionary with extensive lists of expressions and usage examples will be of great help when learning the differences.

Collective nouns

Certain words can refer to numerous people. You may think of the following words as plural, even though they are strictly singular: ektepar, befal, ledelse, styre, personale etc.:

  • Ekteparet var lykkelige
  • Befalet er sinte

Whether words like these are considered singular or plural depends on whether they are considered as one unit or a group of people. Context is also important. Teams, like football teams, are often used as plural:

  • Brann var sjanseløse

(Brann (meaning fire) is a Norwegian football team.)

Jeg og du er flink…e?

When numerous nouns in singular are coordinated, use plural:

  • Ola og Kari er trøtte

However, when referring to the nouns as one, use singular:

  • Håret og skjegget til mannen var langt

Den blå(e)

Adjectives ending with a stressed vowel do not need -e in definite form:

  • en sky hest – den sky/skye hesten – de sky/skye hestene
  • ei rå gulrot – den rå/råe gulroten – de rå/råe gulrøttene
  • en blå blyant – den blå/blåe blyanten – de blå/blåe blyantene

Sunt, godt, populært, dyrt

You may have seen sentences like

  • Sjokolade er godt
  • Røyking er usunt
  • Å gå med briller er populært

These are perfectly fine, yet they do not follow the rules: You would expect Sjokolade er god, since sjokolade is masculine. Certain adjectives, like sunn, god, populær and dyr are written with -t when used like this:

  • Å spise for mye er ikke sunt
  • Elektriske tog er lønnsomt (or Det er lønnsomt med elektriske tog)
  • En ny bil ville ikke være så dumt
  • Grønnsaker er både godt og sunt
3 years ago

66 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
Mod
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I have added another section, this time about adjectives. Next time I will split the sections into separate discussion topics, and link to them from this page.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rts25604

Thanks! this has been very helpful.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lumisade
lumisade
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Ham and han are interchangeable (in those contexts)? Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for the useful tips! :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/torkelrogstad

This is actually a fairly recent change in the language, it wasn't until a few years ago that Språkrådet (The Norwegian Language Council, sprakradet.no) made "ham" effectively obsolete. Some of the language purists out there object it furiously! You will also find that "ham" is used pretty commonly among middle-aged people and up, while it's fairly common for young people to just use "han".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BrettRyland

Here is the språkrådet link for those who are interested. http://www.sprakradet.no/Vi-og-vart/Publikasjoner/Spraaknytt/Arkivet/Spraknytt-2008/Spraknytt-22008/Spoersmaal-og-svar/ I find it interesting that no mention of this was made in the Norwegian language courses I took at university. Rather, the use of han instead of ham would be marked as wrong by teachers of various ages.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lumisade
lumisade
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Mh... I'll just use ham. Sounds better in my ears. I can see why some people object that change :D Thanks for the link!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CecilieO.

Using "ham" looks wrong to most modern norwegians, I would not recommend that people use this spelling.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PuertoHelenos

I disagree. Ham looks more correct and sophisticated. (I am quite young). Both are fine.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kinemariebo

They no longer teach the kids "ham" only "han" at school. So no, I would not personally recommend it. But it is not wrong to use it either.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/km1
km1
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Interesting. So ham probably came into Norwegian from Danish since it was never in Norse. But how did it get into Danish when it was not in Norse...?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mundgeirr
Mundgeirr
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Remember that Danish comes from old Norse too, but from the eastern dialect. I've done a short research and that's what I got: I'll write the pronouns of each language to compare:

-Old norse:

Nom. masc. hann-----Nom. fem hon

Acus. masc. hann-----Acc fem. hana

Dat. masc. honum----Dat. fem henni

-Høgnorsk (old landsmål, antecesor of Nynorsk. The most conservative and purist form of writen Norwegian)

Subject masc. han-----Subject fem ho

Object masc. han (honom)-----Object fem henne (ho)

-Bokmål

Subject masc. han ----Subject fem hun

Object masc. ham (han)-----Object fem henne

It seems there was a mixture between people using the old dative or acusative form when cases disappeared and pronouns represented subject and object like in this case. But I don't know if ham comes from the old dative honum or if it has Danish or other origin. Maybe some expert in the field will help more.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tale
tale
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Yes! Finally someone who is able to explain how "ham" is related to Dativ :D

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/torkelrogstad

I don't know much about this, but I do know that Norse had grammatical cases to a bigger degree than the nordic languages has today. Icelandic is the notable exception, as they more or less still speak old Norse. I guess Denmark is closer to Germany than Sweden and Norway, so perhaps "ham" came from some german influences?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mundgeirr
Mundgeirr
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In German it is ihn (Akk.) and ihm (Dat.). In Low German em or hum (object). In old English hē (nom.), hine (acc.) and him (Dat.). I just think there is a trend, when loosing the cases, where the nominative or accusative is taken for subject and the dative or accusative for object. The 3 pers. sing. dative pronoun tends to end with -m, so I'm not sure if ham comes from honum, honom, ihm, em, hum, him etc. or it's just an own evolution in eastern Norway.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/fveldig
fveldig
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"ham" can be replaced by "han" in all contexts, when the meaning of "ham" translates to "him" in English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/km1
km1
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What about other pronoun pairs? Can we replace dem with de, henne with hun, or oss with vi?

Why has this change happened in 'Norwegian but not in Danish?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
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No, you cannot. You can write "til de som", though, instead of "til dem som". But you cannot write "til hun som", "til du som" and so on.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/km1
km1
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Good to know. I'll have to try this. Tusen takk til de som jeg fikk hjelp av!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ithinkimkari
ithinkimkari
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because when spoken, "ham" and "han" are nearly indistinguishable. Language evolves

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Henrik912155
Henrik912155
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It's a common mistake that you should not make

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ana-maria.iv

Re. article. if i remember correctly, in English there was also a difference relate to location and purpose. i go to churh (meaning to attend the religious service/ to pray) as differnt from i go to the church (meaning it could also be to visit it). same situation as I go to museum vs. i go to the museum... is this correct?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/UppsalaMala

Hi! As a native English speaker, I definitely agree with you about the "I go to church" vs "I go to the church" distinction-- but just saying "I go to museum" sounds awkward to me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ragnar82
ragnar82
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I agree with Mala, but I'll add that there are definitely some cases where the distinction is made, such as "class," "school," "practice," "jail," "court," "rehab" and "production" (as in, we need to get the budget finalized because we go into production in 4 weeks). The words that take this distinction may vary somewhat between British and other varieties of English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Moongrovenly

"production" is a state when used like that, rather than a place. So it's not really in need of belonging to a special category like church, school, jail.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DebbieBone

You can't say I go to museum.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JosueMonca1

Hola gracias por tus consejos.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dreforall
dreforall
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Ah, the missing article was a mystery to me indeed. I was confused when I should/shouldn't apply them. Also sometimes with prepositions like på, I get confused about when I should use them...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
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"på" indeed deserves a few words. I will put it on my list. Right now I am writing about a different subject.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dreforall
dreforall
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Tusen takk! I shall wait for it. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/northfiftynine

This was super helpful, even to a native speaker, to explain why we talk the way we do - thanks!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Emmanuelvega15
Emmanuelvega15
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Thanks:)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CynKuy
CynKuy
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Thank you for these examples. This sentence seems to have a typo: "Adjectives ending with a stressed wovel do not need -e in definite form:". Vowel not wovel.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
Mod
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Thank you!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gidget84

Å spise for for mye er ikke sunt .... why are there two for's here?

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
Mod
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It is a mistake. After all this time no one spotted it. Thank you!

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IdaeiAsker
IdaeiAsker
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Takk skal du ha for hjelpen!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Balthazar92

Thank you so much!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wigglysquire
wigglysquire
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Tusen takk!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/otsogutxi
otsogutxi
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I thought that han is for 'he' and ham is 'his'. Is this correct?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
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  • "han": "he" (or "him")
  • "ham": "him"
  • "hans": "his".
3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/otsogutxi
otsogutxi
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Thanks!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/anamarija_k
anamarija_k
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Are there similar rules for 'hun'? Sorry if the question is kinda stupid, I'm just starting.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iorua
Iorua
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You use "henne" where you you would use "ham" in the examples, but you cannot replace "henne" with "hun". Just think of how it is done in English ("she"/"her" – ("hun"/"henne"), unless "her" is used as a possisive ("hennes").

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/anamarija_k
anamarija_k
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Okay, thanks.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Noor739

Quite useful

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Meli_melo_

Tusen takk! Dette var veldig nyttig.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jsne123

Tusen takk!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TrisBp
TrisBp
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Some Things not Mentioned: Ham = Him - Han = He Indefininite Articles: It's also "den" i. e. "den er en ku" Otherwise this is good.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lucy.Sou

Hello everybody! I am a bit confused with the noun hus. I know that husene is the definite plural but i also saw that hus is used like plural too? is this possible? and i also saw the noun hjem , used as hjemme and i can't tell the difference!! i mean these are not adjectives that change in base of the gender right? and for last the world bakken (ground) and bakker (rock) is the same word or 2 different?? i need some clear answers, please!!! (i would question these in each lesson but in that moment i didn't pay much attention, but now that i am studying it, i have trouble)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TrisBp
TrisBp
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"Et Hus" is neutral gender, this means that in plural form it doesn't change therefore becoming "hus". The word "husene" is specific form which means it is used in situations where it would be; "the houses" in English. So about "hjem" and "hjemme", this is a matter of when it's used. "Et hjem" is "a home" but "hjemme" is used if your talking about where someone/something is in conjunction with the home. e.g. |Hjemme| I'm at home = Jeg er hjemme, It's at home = Den er hjemme, She's at home = Hun er hjemme |Hjem| This is my home = Dette er mitt hjem, I'm on my way home = Jeg er på vei hjem.

The differences between "bakken" and "bakke(r)" is "bakken" is "the ground as in what you stand on and there is only one ground "bakken = the ground" but "en bakke" means a ground and is used as "a hill".

Hus : Plural, Unspecific Husene : Plura, Specific (w/ the in ENG) Bakken : The ground we stand on En bakke: A hill Hjem : Singular, Default Hjemme : Used when someone/something is "at home"

Hope this clarified it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lucy.Sou

wow, finally ...yes..this makes sense now!!!!! Thank you very very much for explaining it to me with such details!!!!!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ArtisMasteiko

Thank you!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bluerain716

This is extremely helpful! Thanks! There are almost no resources on the Internet about learning Norwegian (except for Duolingo)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/eteplang
eteplang
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Yes, they did a great job with tips and notes (with each language). I think you can find some Norwegian sources - just need to know where to look. Also, check youtube for pronunciation and a series of lessons. I bookmark resources I find - Norwegian, Danish, German, Ukrainian, Russian etc.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EnsomTre

this is incredibly helpful! Thank you very much :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/khaliif2008

Very interesting and helpful thank you.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Evelierox

hey guys i know this isnt about this post but i wanna make a discussion and i need some advice for one that wont get deleted! if anyone has an idea that would be very helpful!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlwaysSmiLling

well the ham and han became usfull for me:) but will follow and come back to this once i have lernt more as i have not learnt most of those words you used yetXD but ty^^

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/fool444luv

wow...takk

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vascotuga251

I'm confused now. What do you mean as ham and han are interchangeable in those contexts? If I were to say "vi spiser med han", would it still be correct?

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skynightstar

Yes.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TomHylden

A lingot for this awesome post.

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidRothe3

Can some on send me some lingots?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Evelierox

sure!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mprdo
mprdo
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Sure, I've got over 6,000 and find them hard to spend. Sending 2 now. ENJOY. 26Jan18

7 months ago