"La komencanto estas krokodilo."

Translation:The beginner is a crocodile.

3 years ago

67 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/parthon
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Krokodili (to crocodile) means to speak your own native language where Esperanto would be appropriate. There is also aligatori, (to alligator) which is to speak a language which is not your native language rather than Esperanto. There is also an overarching term, serpenti (to snake), which means people are both krokodilas and aligatoras.

E.g. An Englishman and a German both meet at an Esperanto conference and rather talk in Esperanto, they both use English instead. So they both would serpentas, but the English speaker would krokodilas and the German speaker would aligatoras.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/csi
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So... a krokodilo, an aligatoro, and a serpento walk into a bar...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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I've never heard of serpenti for this before...

On the other hand, thinks such as kajmani and lacerti aren't realy fixed, either -- I think everyone agrees on what krokodili means and most people on aligatori but beyond that it can get rather vague.

For example, some make a distinction between "speaking a language which is neither Esperanto nor the native language of either speaker" and "speaking your listener's native language which is not your own native language nor Esperanto" while others lump both under aligatori.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ajyro
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Is there a term where one would use Esperanto where their native/another language would be more appropriate? A reverse crocodile?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/phle70
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According to the Esperanto Wikipedia-page on reptiliumi, gaviali seems to fit the bill:

Gaviali estas Esperanta idiotismo kun la signifo "paroli Esperanton, kiam alia lingvo pli taŭgus" aŭ kun la signifo "uzi Esperanton por ke ĉeestantaj ne-Esperantistoj ne komprenu nin".

To gaviali is "to speak Esperanto, when an other language would be more appropriate" (either because you just met another Esperantist, and despite being accompanied by other/-s who don't understand Esperanto, you switch to Esperanto, or because you and someone who understands Esperanto wants to say something that you hope no-one else will understand).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sdtrask1
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An option for that would be malkrokodili: “to speak in Esperanto among non-Esperanto speakers” (which makes perfect sense to me) according to this reference: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/krokodili

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/crispycraker

Ne krokodilu!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/smarnv
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Sed malkrokodilu libere.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PfifltriggPi
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Jes.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tengo_una_alma

Jes, ni krokodilas

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PfifltriggPi
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Ne! Neniam!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Raztastic

Sed krokodiloj krokodilas en tre laŭvorta senco...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dudink.
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that's what i was gonna say!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/fearedbliss

HAHAHA! Mi ne parolas esperanton, cxar mi kutime krokodilu kaj parolas alian lingvon.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/parazite
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ĉar mi kutime krokodilas

8 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EYF2003
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jes

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KaptianKaos8
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Ču?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JASWhistman

Lovely in-joke.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis_Domingos
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Thanks for that, course creators: it makes me feel at home just like when I'm learning Dutch: there I'm turtles and bananas, here I'm a crocodile - perfection :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LaurensEduard
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It's a joke for Esperantists, look: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/krokodili

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis_Domingos
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Thanks for that language note :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/john1hdn

Is it a derogatory term?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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I think it's most often used derogatorily, yes - to reprimand people who speak non-Esperanto languages at Esperanto events.

On the one hand, many people come to such events to practise Esperanto, something they don't get the opportunity to do that often perhaps, and so want to spend as much time speaking and listening to Esperanto as possible; and they want to encourage new learners to speak and practise as much as they can.

But on the other hand, celebrating language diversity could mean allowing any language, not looking down on someone for choosing not to speak Esperanto.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DarkDireDragon

So, using the information from this article, the sentence means "The beginner is a crocodile", where "crocodile" can be an insult to someone who is not speaking Esperanto?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/smarnv
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I think that it actually says that this person may be insulting everybody else by not speaking the common language of all (Esperanto), not vice versa.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/craaash80
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Thanks!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SirExotic
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Pardon, ik ben een appel.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jtstreet
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Nee, je bent een banaan!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/craaash80
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Ahahahah... They'll never know :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/langlearnerZeke

Lol. I get this joke. I remember reading about this on some online discussion. The slang verb "krokodili" means "to speak a non-Esperanto language in the presence of another esperantist" which pretty much means reverting to English when you could instead use Esperanto.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/smarnv
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Why would it mean "reverting to English"? You may use any other language different than Esperanto.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HairyChris88
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I bet the even the beginner crocodile understands the accusative case better than me....

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PatriciaJH
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My mnemonic is that accusative is when the subject accuses the [direct] object: La subjekto kulpigas la objekton.

The boy hits the ball. The cat catches the mouse. The soprano sings the song. Subject, verb, direct object.

In Esperanto, the subject always ends in -o, and the direct object ends in -on. La knabo frapas la pilkon. La kato kaptas la muson. La soprano kantas la kanton.

The exception is when the verb is "estas." That's because then the subject and the object are the same thing. The subject isn't doing anything to the object.

La kato estas tigro. Duo estas strigo.

Then there are fancier sentences: subject, verb, direct object, preposition, indirect object: The boy throws the ball to the dog. La knabo ĵetas la pilkon al la hundo.

The subject gets an -o. The direct object gets an -on. The indirect object (the noun with a preposition in front of it -- "to the dog", "al la hundo") gets an -o.

HTH.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/doyle.locker
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Great explanation. And I like how you worked Duo estas strigo (my favorite Esperanto sentence) into the explanation.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/draquila

Accusative case is really quite simple. When a noun is the direct object of a verb, it is in the accusative case. This simply marks that it is being acted upon by the verb. "Mi donas pomon al vi" = "I gave an apple to you." Here pomo becomes pomon because it is the thing being acted upon by doni. Esperanto also uses the accusative case to mark the destination of a motion verb, although I'm not sure why. I think you can simply use "al" in such a case to circumvent the accusative.

The advantage of marking the accusative is that it frees up word order. This is why you can say e.g. "Al vi donas mi pomon," because the cases of mi and pomon are clearly marked.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/XesEri
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It might be beneficial to new learners if there were some grammar note about krokodili. This could probably be confusing.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis_Domingos
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You probably never visited the Dutch course! Over there, sentences like "Ik ben een banaan" (I am a banana) and "Jij bent een schildpad" (You are a turtle) abound, and that to me makes the course feel much lighter and fun. That said, that's precisely what the comment boards are for - for people to come stumble onto things and ask others for help and learning something through that process.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/briannasaurus

La bovino ne manĝas infantojn.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/smarnv
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There are such sentences in different courses (maybe even in most/all of them). Although, I clearly remember only "Yo soy un pingüino." ("I am a penguin" in Spanish) and "Ho un coltello nello stivale." ("I have a knife in the boot" in Italian), I am pretty sure there were some similarly ridiculous ones in the German and French courses, too. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tom-Morgan
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The Portuguese course is real big on talking about how tight people's clothes are. Also contains the alarmingly enthusiastic sentence "We're making knives!!!"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HairyChris88
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The French course has a green elephant in almost every lesson. It's probably got its own Twitter.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Orabela12321

I kind of want to learn dutch now :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mjukicpro
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Classic Duolingo joke....

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AndressaAndrd

I feel like a crocodile. '-'

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Christopehr

That is what a krokodilo is....Esperanto culture. THIS IS THE BEST SENTENCE so far. Clue in the newbies as to what it means though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dnepropedrovsk

Let's all crocodile together, then.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Raztastic

Highly relevant source on the subject: https://youtu.be/kZwhNFOn4ik

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cheruchan262

Ni ne estas krokodilo... jes?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/adlihtam
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Ni ne estas krokodiloj. (plural)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shady330
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XD

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Atueerd2

Certe jes, mi estas krokodilo.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SirExotic
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Mi ne estas krokodilo :(

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ThatOneDoge
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Oh.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AldoMejiaG

Can someone explain me the difference between "the beginner is a crocodile" and "the crocodile is a beginner" ?? I thought they meant the same (spanish speaker here xD)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wolfen24

Do....la komencanto estas furrio?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DurgaPolyglot12

Who comes up with these sentences?! LMAO

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sculptor94

At least I don't have to fear one crocodile in this world. We can both speak Esperanto.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mrmadmonk

I learned that a crocodile is someone that is all mouth and no ears. Talks but does not listen.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/pisceswolf96

Really?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EntropicIrony

If only I knew how to say "I'm terrified of screwing up, so I'll stick to English until I get better, thanks." XD

(I'm just teasing, but you can feel free and actually translate if you wanna)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HannahBya
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I am not a crocodile .-.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/alexobviously
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mi estas sendube krokodilo.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LukeProcto6
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I put "the novice is a crocodile" - should this also be correct?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ja52ng74
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Haha, if I hadn't have clicked on discussion, I wouldn't have found out that this is Esperanto slang. Duolingo should mark words/phrases that are slang.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KonradKond8
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Mi estas krokodilo xD

7 months ago
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