"La koko kaj la ĉevalo vivas."

Translation:The chicken and the horse live.

3 years ago

39 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Fingtam
Fingtam
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Long live the chicken and the horse!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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This is exactly what I was going to say.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RaptorBacon

Hail Hydra!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ususimicxo

Ha ha.The sentence must have a examination mark. THEY LIVE!!!1!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RAFAELLASTRA

The rooster and the horse are alive. None of them are dead. Mi komprenis tion tiel.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Fingtam
Fingtam
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Jes, mi scias, sed la frazo estas plu amuza tiel!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/brasiko
brasiko
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Vivi-to live (biologically)
Loĝi-to dwell, reside Mi estas viva kaj mi loĝas en Nov-Jorko. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Notasurgeon

Would "...are alive" also be a reasonable translation? It's not as literal, but sounds much more natural to me in English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JoeJScott
JoeJScott
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I put that and it said I was correct, so no biggie.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/marinho.eo

I agree with you it is not so natural to say like that. Maybe they just want you to learn the verb. If you want say as in english "....are alive" you could say in esperanto "...estas vivaj".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BuddyRey

I thought that a "koko" was a rooster, and a "kokino" was a chicken, but they didn't count rooster as correct.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BastouXII
BastouXII
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It says in the tips & notes, that the base word is gender neutral (so koko is chicken, either rooster or hen) and to make it specifically male, you'd add vir-, so virkoko is unambiguously "rooster".

I'm no expert though, that's just what I deduced from the notes of the lesson. So if I got it correctly :

koko = chicken, either rooster or hen
kokido = chick
kokino = hen
virkoko = rooster

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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Ah! The base is gender-neutral? That makes perfect sense. Now if only "patro" meant "parent", etc. In that case, would "father" be "virpatro" or "patriĉo"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_reform_in_Esperanto

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cris_Grey
Cris_Grey
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I agree it is weird to claim that chicken is gender neutral - chicken gives eggs, so it is very clearly a female animal!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kanrei
Kanrei
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Chicken describes also the name of the species. Just because we call mostly female chickens chicken and call male explicitly rooster, doesn’t mean that chicken just means the female ones. If you really just want to mean a female, hen is the word for you.

But yeah, I would be much happier if Esperanto really would have used always a neutral base, and like with patro meaning father and making that female.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RAFAELLASTRA

Poste ke gxi estos en la estomako ne estos diferenco kaj la problemo estos finota.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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There seems to be a lack of consensus about gender in Esperanto these days, but I can tell you how it'll turn out eventually: The base form will be gender-neutral (as this course indicates for animals, but not for people).

This same neutralization is happening in English as terms like "actress", "waitress", and "comedienne" are falling out of favor. Sometimes the base form is replaced by another seen as more gender-neutral (like "server" for "waiter"), but often this is done simply by dropping the female suffix. Honestly, adjectives like "female" and "male" should suffice, but at the very least there should be a male affix like "vir-" or "-iĉo" to run parallel to "-ino".

The gender of an animal or of a human being is most often irrelevant, so a language that requires it to be specified (or even makes it easier to specify than to leave it out) is inherently sexist. Imagine if we had obligatory suffixes to indicate a person's height, race, or other irrelevant attribute.

Just because sexism has historically been a part of most languages, that doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue. With a constructed language like Esperanto, we have a special opportunity to lead the charge and show the natural languages how it's done!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kanrei
Kanrei
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But could you talk gender neutral with Esperanto? I think the words like patro, frato and just making them female, you can’t just take out or you need to invite new words or something.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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Patro = parent. Frato = sibling. Simple enough. That's already pretty much what they mean.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ususimicxo

Good points. Pretty modest change, but people don't like change. And I agree that this is how most people use speech. When I say "a field full cows," I don't mean that the cattle were all female, but that the sex is unimportant to the conversation. Or, if I say "go see your doctor," I don't assume the doctor is male. The language shouldn't make that assumption for me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kanrei
Kanrei
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Sorry no, that’s not what they mean, patro means father and frato means brother. O_O I don’t think you could use these words neutral and neither would I feel there are neutral, when there are clearly taken from a male word.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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I'm not saying that's what they mean now, but that's what they would mean as soon as a standard masculine affix were adopted.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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@BastouXII: That's an example of a very modest language reform that's taken place mostly on its own. The "ge" prefix originally meant both genders, not either. But it certainly works to indicate gender neutrality, in my opinion. It's just a shame that the default from is masculine, not neutral. It's pretty illogical.

Steering this back on topic, would you say "chicken" should be "gekoko"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kanrei
Kanrei
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People complain in Esperanto, because it is an invented language and as this, it would have had the chance to made it more gender-neutral. By the way, people to complain about other languages too, like in German, where you can’t talk in a neutral way about a person, because there is only he/she, not like for example in Finnish which has for both hän. (But yeah in German you can make funny things, like talking about a person (Die Person) and then always use she (sie), because person is a feminine word. You can use that even when the person would be male, because the word person is grammatically feminine.) But yeah maybe we should be happy, that we don’t male or female verbs like in Hebrew.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kanrei
Kanrei
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I think the standard form is male, maybe because it was oriented at German, here standard form is often male too. (Maybe not with things like father and mother, that are separate words, but for example names for jobs are male and become only female when adding -in, example Arzt (doctor), Ärztin. Arzt could be neutral true, but in reality people will think of it as male, that is why some people write like this Schüler/in (Student), to include both forms, when talking to someone.)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/plmlp

I would think that "hen" is a better translation for "kokino"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kiki_Michaels

I'm also confused about this. I've looked at other places, and koko is defined as a rooster/cock, general "chicken" seems to be kokido which I'd assume as a baby chick with -id, and hen is kokino. I would have thought rooster would be virkoko or something.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/draquila

The issue is that Esperanto as originally designed treats the base form of a word as always-masculine. But, especially with animals, there are times when you don't know or just don't care if the animal is male or female, and you want to talk about it in a gender-neutral way. That is why the vir- prefix was introduced.

So "koko" as officially defined does mean "rooster," I think, but as used it is "chicken."

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cris_Grey
Cris_Grey
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And I am convinced it is wrong.. a proper dictioinary says that while koko can be used in sense of chicken - rooster is certainly the primary correct meaning.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sarodriguezca

Koko actually comes at some point from Cock

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Volohoc

Mission failed. Eliminate witnesses and report back to base.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/twelvetongue
twelvetonguePlus
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Mi estis komplete seksiston. frakase mi tradukis ghin "The rooster and the stallion live." char mi kredis ke ili bezonus esti ulo au ino. Chu rooster estus kokulo?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shay_b
Shay_b
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See the grammatical note attached to this lesson - virkoko would be rooster. Koko is gender-neutral.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/drakovyrn
drakovyrn
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I answered with "cock" and it was accepted. Actually, I did not know there was a male form for a horse, as I assumed male and female forms were only only available to animals whom's physical traits differed. A bull and a cow look different, and so I refer to each with the respective names. However, all rabbits look the same, so I refer to both the male and female as a rabbit.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LuisRodrigoRuiz
LuisRodrigoRuiz
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-ulo means person (or a member of a genre), not male. A kokulo is a cock-man. The official affix for male is vir- (ex. virkoko, rooster) , while the unofficial neologism used by people that believe Esperanto to be sexist is - (for example, kokiĉo for rooster).

Note that the use of -iĉ is frowned upon.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CliffJonesJr
CliffJonesJr
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The masculine suffix "-iĉo" is frowned upon by most, perhaps, but I smile upon it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RAFAELLASTRA

I do not like that when they instruas Esperanton instruas bad the acusative. I found a great mistake in the lesson 5 in the English-Esperanto Course " THE ESPERANTO TEACHER". By Mason Stuttard. I sent them a note by e-mail.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Alice35768

I said "the hen and the horse live" and it marked me as wrong. Wah.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Pauvel

It's like they are the sole survivors of a great calamity

5 months ago
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