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"Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj ili ŝatas nigran panon."

Translation:They like white bread and they like black bread.

May 29, 2015

112 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Supernova888

We don't discriminate here at duolingo. #Equalityforall


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andy474419

Breadlivesmatter


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Hashtag #EsperantoLives (Matter)

https://youtu.be/4xP9eTytD7o


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamScott794079

Think we wouldn't notice a little shameless self promotion? It's okay because it's good though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Of all the self-promotion I do, this is probably quite mild.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/superiosa

❤❤❤❤❤ is great trabslation for bread


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cs1991

What is black bread?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RebeccaHillary

According to Wikipedia, black bread is rye bread. Far less common, I imagine, than brown (wholemeal) bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arthor

Rye bread (ржаной хлеб, "rzhanoy hleb") is quite widespread in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

It best goes with borsch and other soups, also it's common to snack vodka with black bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kbulygin

You forgot to mention that it is as dark as a bear and resembles a balalaika in shape.

Jokes aside, rye bread is no more related to borsch and vodka than to other food and drink. Choosing between white and black bread is more a matter of personal taste. (That's what the Esperanto sentence is about.)

There's another evidence that black bread is not something special for vodka. In the dialect of Russian that is used in Saint Petersburg, hleb means black bread (not bread in general), and bulka means white bread (not bun as in common Russian). It's not just a historical fact. In recent years, I was personally in situations where I saw white bread (in a store, a cafe), asked for hleb and was answered with something like: "There is no hleb left. This? You've asked for hleb but this is bulka".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/polskiwi

Also in Scandinavia, I would imagine :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/harshbarj

Rye is also quite common here in the United States. Or at least here in the central U.S. But not nearly as common as white or brown.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isaac_Luna_

I'm pretty sure they know what rye bread is. I, for one, have simply never heard it referred to as "black bread". It's not black, so why call it that? Idk. This is news to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jclocks88

Had no idea that was called that outside the US, pretty neat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyMnemonic85

Something they eat in Russia and Germany: Schwarzbrot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Euglot

It's actually better than one would think :) tre bongusta!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeanKrull

https://search.disconnect.me/image?l=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbmNyeXB0ZWQtdGJuMy5nc3RhdGljLmNvbS9pbWFnZXM/cT10Ym46QU5kOUdjU3A4MVE3TkZXVEVkbkd2QnF6cTl3M0FQQmVBZFg1QzJKaklTbFBrQ1hxaUF0M3ZUS2FSdw==.

Schwarzbrot. Probably what Terry Pratchett had in mind for his dwarf bread ; ) But yes it is a rye bread that they bake pretty long too and sometimes add so many sunflower seeds in it, that its barely bread^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pataglu

Mi ŝatas la aludon al Terry Pratchett :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avenlanzer

Bongustan panon


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sf2k

Darker than Pumpernickel like a harder thinner bread. Very tasty ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SkeptiSkun

Mmmmmm pumpernickel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pataglu

Je pense qu'il s'agit de ce que nous français appelons du "pain complet".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shdesawej

Non c'est un peu différent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConnorCooki2

That's what I thought!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AANickFan

When you toast the bread way too much. That happened to me; that bagel was far from delicious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheldolina

So, this sentence could be talking about one group that likes both white and black bread, or about two different groups that like different kinds of bread, right? Is there a way to differentiate between the two options in Esperanto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/farpung

If you say "Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj nigran panon", it is one group that likes both kinds of bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sqdcn

So actaully it refers to two groups of people?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Nope, not necessarily. Don't get the wrong idea; Esperanto is very prone to ambiguity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hxkxm

Actually it's not because it is Esperanto, because english version of that sentence would be constructed the exact same way, and causing the exact same ambiguity


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

I never said English would be better. They are both very prone to ambiguity—English is much, much more.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emiirose

Assuming it is two groups of people, is there a way to distinguish that similarly to in spanish saying "a (group) les gusta" before "ili sXatas" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ratthew.

I'm not 100% sure of this but it might be possible using ankaŭ.

Like "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ŝatas ankaŭ nigran pano." if I'm right would be just "They like white bread, and they like black bread too."

And "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ankaŭ ili ŝatas nigran pano." would be like "They like white bread, and they (group 2) like black bread."

Someone should probably confirm if I'm right or not. XD I just thought of it after seeing your question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darrencraigr

"Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ŝatas ankaŭ nigran pano." Would not be correct because the word "ankau" must appear immediately before the word it refers to. (https://www.duolingo.com/skill/eo/Colors)

However, I believe that "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ankaŭ ŝatas nigran pano." would be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Replying to this post

"Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ŝatas ankaŭ nigran pano." Would not be correct because the word "ankau" must appear immediately before the word it refers to. (https://www.duolingo.com/skill/eo/Colors) However, I believe that "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ankaŭ ŝatas nigran pano." would be correct.

The first sentence means "They like white bread and they like black bread (in addition to white bread)" So I would say it's correct. The rule about coming before the word it modifies is a good one, but be careful about finding the word that's modified. (Some authors, including Zamenhof, have broken this rule.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Parr-Splat

Finally someone who actually talks about how to anwser these correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JustinShaffer

They like it before & after it's burned in the toaster!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmwns

Can you shorten this in any way? in english instead of saying that you could say "they like white AND black bread" emphasize the "and" or you'll get multicolored bread. How is this in esperanto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/farpung

Yep, assuming the two they's refer to the same group of people, it could have been "Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj nigran panon"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skapata

Aŭ eĉ ili ŝatas blankan kaj nigran panojn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

Ugh! Rye bread!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookoverlord

is there a difference between lli and ili in esperanto? is is something related to the grammer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sheldolina

Lli is not a word in Esperanto (or at least not one that is taught in this course, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist altogether). You're probably confusing the upper-case i for an L :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookoverlord

lol, SO thats why. XD thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/foreverimprove

Why not: They like a white bread and they like a black bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyMnemonic85

There's no word for "a" in Esperanto. So it can be read that way if you like, but it's direct translation is : "They like white bread and they like black bread"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kamparano

Yes, you just have to be careful with translations. "They go into car."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyMnemonic85

Yeah but you'd probably say something like "They go into that car" in real life.

"Ili iras en tiun aŭton"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kamparano

I was just pointing out that while there is no word for "a/an", it's still implied by nouns. Realistically, you would say what you said.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

At last, they've accepted it! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Why not a bread???????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Never mind; they've accepted it. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lixulukus

How do we say : "They like white bread as well as black bread" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rainkumo

So just make sure not to say the esperanto word for black around people who don't speak esperanto...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lojbanlorxu

Mi sxatas blankan panon sed mi tre ne sxatas nigran panon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EaterofPumkin

Oh, jeez- im just now learning my colors. You mean to tell me they constructed a language and STILL????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

If you are referring to the root of the word for black, I think it traces back to latin for the colour.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xversion1

Blankan sounds like black, but it means white. Funny!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarwings

I admit that I first thought of charcoal bread when I saw "black bread".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Esprantonian

Black bread is rye


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eltonnjo

Oh, first I didn't understand what is meant with "black" and "white"-bread.... :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ladnil

Could you translate in a more mature fashion: They like white and black bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Only if you were absolutely sure that the 'they' talked about were the same group, and not 'They like white bread and they like black bread'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trachurus1

The best answer I found in this thread is that there are two different groups of person (maybe the speaker is pointing at each group)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarpistol24

Does blankan panon and nigran panon have the "n" at the end because the white and black bread are the subjects of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

... because they're the objects of the sentence. That is, they're receiving the action of "sxatas".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarpistol24

What is "sxatas?" Pardonu min, mi estas komencanto, dankon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrandaUrso

In Esperanto, some people find it easier to type Sx instead of ŝ and Cx instead of ĉ and so on and so forth. It's just when people either don't have access to an Esperanto keyboard or they don't want to use it. You can also use Sh and Ch if you're so inclined however that usage is much older and isn't as widespread as X


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarpistol24

I was confused for a little bit but now i understand completely. I'm not sure why but Korean is much easier for me than esperanto or European languages in general and I'm not even korean or know Asian languages in general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lucalingo07

According to Wikipedia, black bread is rye bread. Far less common, I imagine, than brown (wholemeal) bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobStewa16

Does black bread exist = Cxu ❤❤❤❤❤ pano estas?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Make sure you're reading the other comments... but yes. I would bet you a loaf of black bread that there is a part of the world where "black bread" is a common expression. In Croatia, for example, the opposite of white whine is black wine ( = red wine).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JacobStewa16

I meant it to ask if that's a correct translation when I clicked 'post'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

The translation in the OP is correct:

  • "Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj ili ŝatas nigran panon."
  • Translation: They like white bread and they like black bread.

Was that your question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PigJosh

They burnt the bread -.-


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Imthebestlearner

does black bread even exist?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShaneRogers0

equality for all bread


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AANickFan

Oh, ❤❤❤❤... People are going to get triggered, aren't they?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlos_Almeida1

❤❤❤❤❤❤ bread?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TerryMadeley

Nope, don't fancy eating black bread, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISpeakAlien

I think this sentence should be: Ili ŝatas blankon kaj nigran panon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loxodromia

Duolingo glitched and wouldn't let me go forward... just commenting to see if it would help :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Is it safe to assume that it did not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aa2ccccc5

I am now really happy with this because it accepts They like white bread and black bread


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BryanH6

There's no black bread in American English, lmao. Say that and people will look at you like a lunatic. We have varieties of bread though--rye, multigrain, sourdough, whatever you want.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Espels

The intonation is it is like a question, not a positive sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesDanielChr

A typo, the "y" was missing on the first word is xounted wrong. That's harsh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

For what it's worth, typo checking is under the control of the Duolingo software. The course volunteers (or random forum participants, like me) can't do anything about it.

first word is xounted wrong.

I'm amused by the typo in your complaint about typos. Very meta.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Farlander2821

Kio estas ❤❤❤❤❤ pano?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sqdcn

what a trivial sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeteInPerth

So helpful - trivial to you maybe:-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sqdcn

"Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj nigran panon."is more pithy


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahKitterman

It's white vs. brown bread in the US, not white vs. black.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeteInPerth

So surely the bread is the subject of this sentence (so ends in an n - it does, great) and the colours are adjectives so end in 'a' - so why do they also get an 'n' on the end as well - it makes no sense to me.... :-( bread is the subject, white the adjective....yet also is a subject??? It's more difficult than French!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gogea_oletaa

Newbie here, but as I've understood it: "blankan" is an adjective, "panon" is a noun, and "blankan panon" together (as they are in this case) are the direct object (not subject btw) of the sentence. Since "white bread" is the direct object, it gets the -n ending, wich goes onto both nouns and adjectives in Esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DustinCram1

I think that "ili" is the subject and "sxatas" the subject while colored breads "pano" is an object here and thats why the "n" is added to make "panon" to the adjectives (colors) must agree with the object.. so they also take an "n"..

At least thats what I've taken from this so far..

Mi estas komencanto!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sqdcn

Consider this: libro ŝatas blankan panon/libro ŝatas blanka panon. I know the former one may not conform the normal order of words...but just to be clear (remember "la virinon kisas la viro"?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/likethree
<h1>BREADLIVESMATTER</h1>

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MC_Mac_MC

I suppose it should've been brown bread, but since black bread is a thing too I won't report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Why would you think that would be a legitimate reason to report it anyway?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Atueerd2

That's racist.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

If anything it's the opposite of racist; they're demonstrating equality in liking different kinds of bread. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/supercoolguy6666

True, but I think he means something different....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

You mean having to take local USA norms into consideration when constructing a language based on European roots because the USA is the only place that really exists?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kbulygin

Even that wouldn't help when Esperanto was created. The problem is not in words but in people who misuse them.

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