"Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj ili ŝatas nigran panon."

Translation:They like white bread and they like black bread.

May 29, 2015

78 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Supernova888

We don't discriminate here at duolingo. #Equalityforall


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andy474419

Breadlivesmatter


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BossLearner87

Think we wouldn't notice a little shameless self promotion? It's okay because it's good though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Of all the self-promotion I do, this is probably quite mild.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/superiosa

❤❤❤❤❤ is great trabslation for bread


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AstroTsiga

Are you a pigeon? I mean, it's totally okay. I'm just curious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Of course he/she is. Everybody knows that pigeons are the best trabslators.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cs1991

What is black bread?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RebeccaHillary

According to Wikipedia, black bread is rye bread. Far less common, I imagine, than brown (wholemeal) bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arthor

Rye bread (ржаной хлеб, "rzhanoy hleb") is quite widespread in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.

It best goes with borsch and other soups, also it's common to snack vodka with black bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kbulygin

You forgot to mention that it is as dark as a bear and resembles a balalaika in shape.

Jokes aside, rye bread is no more related to borsch and vodka than to other food and drink. Choosing between white and black bread is more a matter of personal taste. (That's what the Esperanto sentence is about.)

There's another evidence that black bread is not something special for vodka. In the dialect of Russian that is used in Saint Petersburg, hleb means black bread (not bread in general), and bulka means white bread (not bun as in common Russian). It's not just a historical fact. In recent years, I was personally in situations where I saw white bread (in a store, a cafe), asked for hleb and was answered with something like: "There is no hleb left. This? You've asked for hleb but this is bulka".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/polskiwi

Also in Scandinavia, I would imagine :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isaac_Luna_

I'm pretty sure they know what rye bread is. I, for one, have simply never heard it referred to as "black bread". It's not black, so why call it that? Idk. This is news to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

Dark rye bread can be very dark -- not like that wussy pale stuff you buy from Pepperidge Farms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jclocks88

Had no idea that was called that outside the US, pretty neat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyMnemonic85

Something they eat in Russia and Germany: Schwarzbrot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Euglot

It's actually better than one would think :) tre bongusta!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeanKrull

https://search.disconnect.me/image?l=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbmNyeXB0ZWQtdGJuMy5nc3RhdGljLmNvbS9pbWFnZXM/cT10Ym46QU5kOUdjU3A4MVE3TkZXVEVkbkd2QnF6cTl3M0FQQmVBZFg1QzJKaklTbFBrQ1hxaUF0M3ZUS2FSdw==.

Schwarzbrot. Probably what Terry Pratchett had in mind for his dwarf bread ; ) But yes it is a rye bread that they bake pretty long too and sometimes add so many sunflower seeds in it, that its barely bread^^


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pataglu

Mi ŝatas la aludon al Terry Pratchett :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Avenlanzer

Bongustan panon


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sf2k

Darker than Pumpernickel like a harder thinner bread. Very tasty ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SkeptiSkun

Mmmmmm pumpernickel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pataglu

Je pense qu'il s'agit de ce que nous français appelons du "pain complet".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ConnorCooki2

That's what I thought!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AANickFan

When you toast the bread way too much. That happened to me; that bagel was far from delicious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DennerCassio

Would It be a burnt one ? Lol


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sawderf

Rei bread probably.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vinofreddo

So, this sentence could be talking about one group that likes both white and black bread, or about two different groups that like different kinds of bread, right? Is there a way to differentiate between the two options in Esperanto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/farpung

If you say "Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj nigran panon", it is one group that likes both kinds of bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sqdcn

So actaully it refers to two groups of people?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Nope, not necessarily. Don't get the wrong idea; Esperanto is very prone to ambiguity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hxkxm

Actually it's not because it is Esperanto, because english version of that sentence would be constructed the exact same way, and causing the exact same ambiguity


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

I never said English would be better. They are both very prone to ambiguity—English is much, much more.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emiirose

Assuming it is two groups of people, is there a way to distinguish that similarly to in spanish saying "a (group) les gusta" before "ili sXatas" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sain.t

I'm not 100% sure of this but it might be possible using ankaŭ.

Like "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ŝatas ankaŭ nigran pano." if I'm right would be just "They like white bread, and they like black bread too."

And "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ankaŭ ili ŝatas nigran pano." would be like "They like white bread, and they (group 2) like black bread."

Someone should probably confirm if I'm right or not. XD I just thought of it after seeing your question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Replying to this post

"Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ŝatas ankaŭ nigran pano." Would not be correct because the word "ankau" must appear immediately before the word it refers to. (https://www.duolingo.com/skill/eo/Colors) However, I believe that "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ankaŭ ŝatas nigran pano." would be correct.

The first sentence means "They like white bread and they like black bread (in addition to white bread)" So I would say it's correct. The rule about coming before the word it modifies is a good one, but be careful about finding the word that's modified. (Some authors, including Zamenhof, have broken this rule.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlgoAmoeba

"Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ŝatas ankaŭ nigran pano." Would not be correct because the word "ankau" must appear immediately before the word it refers to. (https://www.duolingo.com/skill/eo/Colors)

However, I believe that "Ili ŝatas blankon pano kaj ili ankaŭ ŝatas nigran pano." would be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Parr-Splat

Finally someone who actually talks about how to anwser these correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JustinShaffer

They like it before & after it's burned in the toaster!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmwns

Can you shorten this in any way? in english instead of saying that you could say "they like white AND black bread" emphasize the "and" or you'll get multicolored bread. How is this in esperanto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/farpung

Yep, assuming the two they's refer to the same group of people, it could have been "Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj nigran panon"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skapata

Aŭ eĉ ili ŝatas blankan kaj nigran panojn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talideon

Ugh! Rye bread!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookoverlord

is there a difference between lli and ili in esperanto? is is something related to the grammer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vinofreddo

Lli is not a word in Esperanto (or at least not one that is taught in this course, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist altogether). You're probably confusing the upper-case i for an L :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookoverlord

lol, SO thats why. XD thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MyCousinBalin

So just make sure not to say the esperanto word for black around people who don't speak esperanto...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShaneRogers0

equality for all bread


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/foreverimprove

Why not: They like a white bread and they like a black bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyMnemonic85

There's no word for "a" in Esperanto. So it can be read that way if you like, but it's direct translation is : "They like white bread and they like black bread"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kamparano

Yes, you just have to be careful with translations. "They go into car."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnnyMnemonic85

Yeah but you'd probably say something like "They go into that car" in real life.

"Ili iras en tiun aŭton"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kamparano

I was just pointing out that while there is no word for "a/an", it's still implied by nouns. Realistically, you would say what you said.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

At last, they've accepted it! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Why not a bread???????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheRealFlenuan

Never mind; they've accepted it. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lixulukus

How do we say : "They like white bread as well as black bread" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaJsemAdam

Probably something like “Ili ŝatas blankan panon kaj ankaŭ nigran panon.” Please correct me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarwings

I admit that I first thought of charcoal bread when I saw "black bread".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Esprantonian

Black bread is rye


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lojbanlorxu

Mi sxatas blankan panon sed mi tre ne sxatas nigran panon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarpistol24

Does blankan panon and nigran panon have the "n" at the end because the white and black bread are the subjects of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

... because they're the objects of the sentence. That is, they're receiving the action of "sxatas".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarpistol24

What is "sxatas?" Pardonu min, mi estas komencanto, dankon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrandaUrso

In Esperanto, some people find it easier to type Sx instead of ŝ and Cx instead of ĉ and so on and so forth. It's just when people either don't have access to an Esperanto keyboard or they don't want to use it. You can also use Sh and Ch if you're so inclined however that usage is much older and isn't as widespread as X


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solarpistol24

I was confused for a little bit but now i understand completely. I'm not sure why but Korean is much easier for me than esperanto or European languages in general and I'm not even korean or know Asian languages in general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EaterofPumkin

Oh, jeez- im just now learning my colors. You mean to tell me they constructed a language and STILL????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

If you are referring to the root of the word for black, I think it traces back to latin for the colour.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xversion1

Blankan sounds like black, but it means white. Funny!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MezmerKaiser

Ĉu estas ofte en Esperanto, ke oni ne metas komon antaŭ “kaj?”


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gazun5

Regarding grammar, should there be a comma in the Esperanto sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DennerCassio

Do they like burnt bread ? Lol

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