"Kiontrinkaslaurso?"

Translation:What does the bear drink?

3 years ago

63 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/TuLaim
TuLaim
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Kion diras la vulpon?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazar.ljubenovic
lazar.ljubenovic
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Vulpo* ;)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Interrobang3

Congrats on the 300 day streak!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazar.ljubenovic
lazar.ljubenovic
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Thanks :) Congrats on very-soon-to be 200 day streak! :D

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MuhammadAr189213

Congrats on your 600 day streak!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DillonReyn
DillonReyn
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Noob question, why does Kio take the accusative here?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jamthom8
Jamthom8
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Because the thing that is being asked about is the thing the bear is drinking.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/_Travis_
_Travis_
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Ah, this is why the sentence isn't:

"What drinks the bear?" , but "What is the bear drinking"

Accusatives are the new punctuation... sigh lol.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/erissilet

I swear I absolutely read 'what drinks the bear' first. I know Duo is notorious for weird sentences, but that would have taken the cake.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PoisonPlatypus
PoisonPlatypus
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You've earned it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Infrastation

Wouldn't it also be "kiel"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazar.ljubenovic
lazar.ljubenovic
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Not sure what would be more natural in Esperanto, but both make sense to me. (In my native language, both "What does the fox say?" and "How does the fox say?" are perfectly correct, but in English only the first one sounds natural to me. A more experienced Esperanto speaker should clear this up.)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
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How would be quickly or slowly or some other adverb describing how the fox said it but not replacing what in English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Andi_M
Andi_M
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"Kiel" would be "how". Has another (possible) meaning, so: not correct here.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Infrastation

"Kiel" can also mean "in what manner". I think it would make more sense in the song since he's asking "how would the fox communicate" instead of "what are the words out of his mouth". The song even mentions things like Morse code, which would make "kiel" seem more likely to me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/draquila

The question in question is most certainly "what sound does the fox make." If that can't be expressed in Esperanto by "Kion diras," then it must be changed, but I doubt "kiel" is going to bring it any closer.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/thatotherzach

Legit made me laugh, have an Lingot.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/xandermark
xandermark
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❤❤❤❤❤❤! You beat me to it...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lojbanlorxu
lojbanlorxu
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La vulpo diras mutcon

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rach_passed
rach_passed
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3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WahahaDrills
WahahaDrills
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Bieron! La urso trinkas bieron!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JoeJScott
JoeJScott
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Beer, last I heard.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Bricxjo
Bricxjo
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Mojosa

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kaybekwa

not to be confused with "Kio trinkas la urson"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MistyMountaina

would it mean "what drinks the bear"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rippler
Rippler
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RING DING DING DING DING DI-DING

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/andrew-0
andrew-0
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Totally sounds like "What drinks the bear?" In fact, how would you ask "What drinks the bear?" Like the bear is prey or something.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

In "What drinks the bear?", "the bear" is the object, and "what" is the subject. So, It will be "Kio trinkas la urson?".

Many courses give sentences like the following, to make the students understand the accusative.

  • Kato ŝatas muson. ... A cat likes a mouse.
  • Muson ŝatas kato. ... A cat likes a mouse.
  • Muso ŝatas katon. ... A mouse likes a cat.
  • Katon ŝatas muso. ... A mouse likes a cat.

The same case is here. But the subject or the object is a special word called demand-vorto. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/andrew-0
andrew-0
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Dankon por la helpo!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

Nedankinde. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BelleHunter

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) heh?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dusics95
dusics95Plus
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BEER :D

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NoelEtrof
NoelEtrof
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Kiu drinkas bieron kun la urso? Putin sen-ĉemizo.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MiracleMing

'kion la urso trinkas?' Is it also acceptable?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

It's correct also. If it's not accepted, report it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Diamonte
Diamonte
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Where's Cxu?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

"Ĉu" is used only with yes/no questions.

  • Ĉu vi volas tion? — Do you want that?
  • Ĉu li kuras nun? — Is he running now?
  • Kion vi diras? — What do you say?
3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesDuley

What about "The bear drinks what?", is that fine?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Csillagede
Csillagede
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No

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Anneysha7
Anneysha7
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Ursa Major...a mnemonic for urso...
https://goo.gl/images/7dR58G

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hugglesaim
hugglesaim
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Beer! I though we had already disscussed this!!!

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/unyone
unyone
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Depends on a course, but mostly beer.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kristell608697

Do not get a bit

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/musicspaghetti
musicspaghetti
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'How does the fox say', is natural in English. It just has to be used properly. How's the fox say hello? How would the fox go about saying hello usually or how in specific cases such as say hello to another fox already identified? How is the fox saying hello right now, for someone communicating via text or disabled such as blind.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cfelipe
cfelipe
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La urso trinkas la bieron

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BelleHunter

According to Pooh, evidently staches of jarred honey (HOW does he open them with his big ol' paws?!) and dandalion wine.

Komencanto alert: How on earth do accusatives work? -n Dankon!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

The n-ending (the accusative marker) is a role-indicator; its main use is to indicate the direct object of the sentence. The direct object is what receives the action. For example, in "I eat an apple.", the direct object is the "apple".

The first half of this page explains what the direct object is. So does this page.

Now, you can simply add an "n" to the end of the word you want to mark as a direct object.

Examples:

  • Mi amas vin. "mi": subject, "amas": verb, "vin": direct object.
  • Vin amas mi. "mi": subject, "amas": verb, "vin": direct object.

Notice that both sentences have the same meaning! Also,

  • Kato ĉasas muson. "kato": subject; "ĉasas": verb; "muson": direct object.
  • Kato muson ĉasas. "kato": subject; "ĉasas": verb; "muson": direct object.
  • Muson ĉasas kato. "kato": subject; "ĉasas": verb; "muson": direct object.
  • Muson kato ĉasas. "kato": subject; "ĉasas": verb; "muson": direct object.
  • Ĉasas kato muson. "kato": subject; "ĉasas": verb; "muson": direct object.
  • Ĉasas muson kato. "kato": subject; "ĉasas": verb; "muson": direct object.

All these sentences are translated to the same English sentence: "A cat is chasing a mouse."

Also, note that, in Esperanto, adjectives must agree in number and case. That means,

  • "I like red apples." = "Mi ŝatas ruĝajn pomojn."
  • "I like this red apple." = "Mi ŝatas ĉi tiun ruĝan pomon."
  • "Red apples are pleasing to me." = "Ruĝaj pomoj plaĉas al mi."

And so on.

Do you want to know more about the uses of this "n"? See this.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZachTorino
ZachTorino
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This word order breaks my brain and makes no sense to my native English speaking brain. This language was amazing till I learned that the accusative case can break structure this badly. Ugh

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

Das kenne ich. :P

Benny Lewis (the creator of Fluentin3months.com) says: "But a language is different for a reason – if everything was the same it wouldn’t be a foreign language, would it? ;)".

See also: Just 2 weeks learning Esperanto can get you months ahead in your target language.

.

I won't say how the word order of Esperanto is flexible, and why it's important; I'll let you discover this yourself. But I will ask you some questions about your native language, English.

  • Do you think that adjectives always precede nouns?
    There is something new to know about your language. ;)
  • Do you think that the word order in English is always Subject-Verb-Object?
    Another new thing you need to know about English. ;)

Obviously you know all of that, but I wanted to attract your attention to the fact that the English (or German) word order is rigid and complex, as opposite to the Esperanto word order, which is exactly the opposite, flexible and simple, which is much easier than what you think! It's easier than Turkish, too.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZachTorino
ZachTorino
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Well, I understand that this is a different language. I also understand that the accusative must attach itself to "kio" because there is no other part it can. It's just kind of silly in my opinion. Not to say that other languages don't have this... (Although I know a bit of a bunch of languages which is why esperanto is actually even easier for me to learn, and not one of them has structure like this).

Das kenne ich - It makes sense. There are no words being implied without their presence - It's more like "That I know". However this esperanto sentence is more like "What (is being) drunk (by) the bear". The structure is completely messed up even for other sentences I've learned so far - and there are basically more words in the sentence needed in order to explain it as such. It is literally one letter away from being "What drinks the bear?" (Kio trinkas la urson". I'll learn it (because I love this language more than any other I've learned), but it's just very, very strange. Same with "mi amas vin" being the same as "vin amas mi". In order for this later to work (in english) you would have to explain that later sentence as something like: "Your love is received by me". It really, really, doesn't make sense to structure it like that, in any other language I've learned - so I'm really curious what native language would. Your other examples about english don't really apply to this particular sentence. They would apply to the difference between "La knabino laboras rapide" (The girl works quickly) and "La knabino rapide laboras" (The girl quickly works). Both of which make sense and appear in english. This sentence structure however, does not - and neither does something like "Vin amas mi".

Either way though, I appreciate the pep talk. I'm not quitting or anything. This language makes SO MUCH SENSE in every other aspect I've learned. I love the way it sounds, I love how so many words were borrowed (To the point that I basically knew almost every word introduced automatically) and I love how things are so logically intuitive. I have a feeling I'll be fluent in a few months. This is my first week and I'm soaring through it - I adore this language.

I have a question though, could you state the above sentence like this instead: "La urso trinkas kion?"? That makes more sense to me because at least it's like "The bear is drinking what?"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/noureddin95

I'm glad you love Esperanton (yes, with the n-ending!). It's really lovable language. :)

You know English, German, and Turkish, right?
The accusative case is found in all the three (but to a very limited extend in English).

"Das kenne ich" makes sense to you as it's more like "That I know", right? So, why "Vin amas mi" is not like "You I love", but "Your love is received by me" instead? (which is a very, very strange translation in my opinion) I may explain this sentence as "You are loved by me", but I will never ever translate it like that; It can be translated, into English, only to "I love you" or "You I love".

About this sentence, "What is being drunk by the bear?" is "Kio estas trinkata de la urso?", which can be simplified to "Kion trinkas la urso?" or "What does the bear drink?".
This word order can be explained only like what you wrote, but this isn't the translation at all!

And "Kion trinkas la urso?" is two letter away from "Kio trinkas la urson?". There are many similar examples in every language.

Imagine you're teaching English to someone, who speaks Esperanto, but doesn't know any other language you know. You say, for example,

> If we have the sentence "I know him", which means "Mi konas lin" and we want to negate it, we say "I do not know him", that's like "Mi faras ne koni lin".

Imagine his/her reaction!

Try not to think too much in a language when you're learning another language, especially if the language you think in is English.

.

As it's your first week, you are not used to a flexible word order. You will get used to it, and find out how it's amazing. :)

By the way, after 7 years from publishing the First Book of Esperanto, Zamenhof published a reformed Esperanto. One of the changes was "The accusative would have the same form as the nominative and depend on position for clarity." This reform was completely refused by the community.

.

About "La urso trinkas kion?", yes, but it's more like a shout than a normal question, like "The bear drinks WHAT?!"
The question words normally start the question, like many languages, including English.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ZachTorino
ZachTorino
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Actually, I know some Spanish, Farsi, and Japanese too. All of which don't do that (from my knowledge of them). They have accusative case, yes, of course, but they don't phrase things that way. Things other than the question particle take the accusative. Esperanto seems unique in this way (again, to me) that the query can also be accusative with no designation except word order to signify what is doing what.

I see what you're saying with "you I love" but I would think of that as, "Estas vin, mi amas" or something, but this helps a lot, thank you!. Since direct translation (in english) would be more like "Vin, mi amas" but you can have the flexible sentence structure - so it works that way, I get it =).

It's more nitpicking I suppose. I actually prefer the non-simplified explanation: "Kio estas trinkata de la urso?" (as it makes more sense to me, but the simplification will save time I guess @_@).

The flexible sentence structure is awesome, and I'm familiar with it from other languages. It's very, very cool. If you think of it like an equation or something it makes a lot of logical sense - so don't take my criticism to heart, it makes perfect sense, it's just to me it's confusing ^_^.

For me, I kind of have to think of kion = "what is that which" so it's like "What (is that, which) the bear drinks". Because English, nor any other language I've learned does this (again, in my knowledge). Maybe you have a simpler way to remember? I suppose if nothing else, just repetition will make me remember anyway.

Gotcha. I'll just remember, it'll take hold eventually.

Reformed esperanto and ido look crazy haha. Very interesting. What are your thoughts on them? Are they more complete? Less? Thank you again ^_^.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rocco275616
Rocco275616
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Also "What is drinking the bear?" should be accepted. Shouldn't it?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LuisRodrigoRuiz
LuisRodrigoRuiz
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No, because the "what" is not drinking the bear.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rocco275616
Rocco275616
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It's not a matter of "subject" and "object". I mean that you can use "present tense" or "present continuous". In my opinion in this case you can use also "present continuous".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jamthom8
Jamthom8
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Yes you can use present continuous but where the word appears in English determines what the object is and what the subject is and "What is drinking the bear?" makes the "what" the subject and "bear" the object which is opposite to "Kion trinkas la urso". To use "drinking" and still have the same effect it would be "What is the bear drinking?".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rocco275616
Rocco275616
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I am not an English native speaker. I was told by my English teacher that "What is he drinking?" is absolutely the same of "what is drinking he?". And in both cases "what" is the object of the sentence and "he" is the subject. But here we are to learn "Esperanton" and in my opinion: What is drinking the bear" is a good tranlation of "Kion trinkas la urso?"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jamthom8
Jamthom8
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"What is drinking he" is fine, although you will usually only find this in poetic speech or old texts (in fact most people would stumble with this sentence even if it is written in a poetic or old text. Context is super important. Without any context I would come to the conclusion that the speaker is asking what he is drinking based on the absurdity of something drinking him.), as the word "he" changes to "him" when he is the object. However "bear" does not change when it is the object and so whether the bear is a subject to an object is determined by where the word "bear" appears in the sentence.

"What is the bear drinking?" -- "The bear" is the subject.
"What is drinking the bear?" -- "The bear" is the object.

I think it cool that we can learn about English by learning Esperanto. I too, as a native English speaker, am learning about English by studying Esperanto.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Fingtam
Fingtam
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Jamthom8 says that "What is drinking he" is fine, and technically it may be.

But I promise you that you will never ever hear a native English speaker say this in a conversation. "What is he drinking" is what you should say.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/draquila

To be honest, "What is drinking he" sounds like "What is drinking him" asked by someone who has forgotten the accusative pronoun. In a poem you might find something like "What drinks he," but I've never seen such a construction with the present continuous.

English word order is fairly rigid outside of poetry, because we use it to mark cases. We also invert auxiliary verbs in sentences such as "The bear is drinking water." Thus, in a question, it becomes "[What] is the bear drinking?" because "is" is inverted to the beginning of the sentence, but "what" always comes first.

3 years ago
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