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- "Ĉi tiuj aŭtoj estas bonaj."
39 Comments
I'm a little confused; if Ci is 'these' and tiuj is 'these' then why have them together?
683
"Ĉi" doesn't mean "these". It's used to indicate proximity. E.g. "Tie" - "there", "Ĉi tie" - "here".
Oh mi vidas! When I hovered over the Ci (sorry I can't get the accent over the top), it said 'these' and then the same on the tiuj. I understand much better now. Dankon Stephen :0
there are a few different ways to do the accent, but in general if you're not able to do it it's considered acceptable to use the letter x instead. so for example, instead of ĉi you would say cxi, and instead of manĝas you would say mangxas
Question on pronouncing "tiuj": The stressed syllable is always the 2nd to last. Does j count as a vowel here, and thus, a syllable? In other words, is it pronounced "tee-OO-ee" or "TEE-wee". Or something else?
Put it like this:
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The stress is always on the second-to-last vowel.
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The vowels in Esperanto are: a, e, i, o, u.
(The consonants are: b, c, ĉ, d, f, g, ĝ, h, ĥ, j, ĵ, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, ŝ, t, ŭ, v, z.
Note that both j and ŭ are consonants! Example: ankaŭ has the stress on the first a - Ankaŭ - not "ankAŭ".)
To answer your question:
Skip "syllables". Count the vowels (a, e, i, o, u) instead.
tiu has the stress on i
tiuj also has the stress on i
I believe that when the -j plural marker is added on, the syllable to which it is attached becomes a diphthong, meaning it is still one syllable with a sort of 'blended together' sound. So if "tiu" is pronounced like "TEE-oo", the word "tiuj" would then be pronounced "TEE-ooee".
A similar effect occurs with the 'a' and 'ŭ' in "aŭto", or just "aŭ". Alone, the 'a' is just an "ah" sound, but when 'ŭ' is added to it, there's still only one syllable, but pronounced together like "ow" (as in "out").
I unfortunately can't read such English pronunciation guides, but here are some other examples for you to listen to:
why is this "ĉi tiuj" and not "ĉi tioj"? I thought tiu was only for when you were talking about people?
In fact, you can -- you just can't do it in the Duolingo course. The course makes a very strict difference between "this" and "that" which is not always observed in reality.
Occasionally when I say this, my comments will get voted down (presumably by people who have learned in the course that "Ĉi tie" means "here" not "there"), but nobody has yet to give an example of a single appearance of a demonstrative word like this, appearing by itself with no other demonstratives as contrasts, where this distinction matters.
I can point to a spot right in front of me on a table and say "look there, there's an ant on the table!" and nobody will question it.
So, back to the original sentence, if I were to come up to a bunch of cars for sale, I could very easily drop the ĉi. But, if the conversation was more like this:
- Ĉu tiuj aŭtoj estas bonaj?
- Ne, ili estas malbonaj, sed ĉi tiuj aŭtoj estas bonaj.
... in this case, you can't drop the ĉi.
- 683
"tiuj aŭtoj" would be "those cars". "Ĉi" indicates proximity in space or time. So "Ĉi tie" means "here" not "there", "Ĉi-nokte" means "tonight" not "at night" or "nightly".
You're thinking of ĉu. Ĉu is the particle for questions. Ĉi shows that something is closer. It changes "that" to "this."
- 683
It's a selfie I took a few years ago walking up to Dalehead from Newlands Valley in Cumbria.
See here for more info on correlatives: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_vocabulary#Correlatives
In English that would make no sense. The adjectives do not add an "s" when the noun does in English.
As Learning German said below, "ĉi tioj" would be used for "these are" as they are indefinite. "Ĉi tiuj" has a definite subject, do ni diras "these cars are".
The correlatives that end in -io (including tio) do not take the -j ending.
- 926
Dankon! This exactly answers the question I have (which might be discussed in the tips & notes, but I am on mobile app right now).
Your question is answered in other comments here in the thread, so no need to guess. It's also good to read the tips and notes (lightbulb icon.)
How is it not "Tioj"? I geuss "which" and "those" can refer to people and things as well
I don't understand your reference to "people and things". Is that in the Tips and Notes? It sounds like you're quoting something, but I can't tell what. Here's what you need to know to see how this works:
Point 1: Tio (and related words like io, kio, ĉio, and nenio) will take an -n if they are a direct object, but they never take a -j ending.
Point 2: Tio answers "what" and tiu answers "which" or "who".
Keep in mind also that we sometimes say "what car" when we really mean "which car."
So - which cars are good - those cars are good. It needs to be a form of tiu.
Another way to put all this is that if "this" comes before a noun (expressed or implied) it needs to be a form of tiu.
