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Question on pronouncing "tiuj": The stressed syllable is always the 2nd to last. Does j count as a vowel here, and thus, a syllable? In other words, is it pronounced "tee-OO-ee" or "TEE-wee". Or something else?
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Put it like this:
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The stress is always on the second-to-last vowel.
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The vowels in Esperanto are: a, e, i, o, u.
(The consonants are: b, c, ĉ, d, f, g, ĝ, h, ĥ, j, ĵ, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, ŝ, t, ŭ, v, z.
Note that both j and ŭ are consonants! Example: ankaŭ has the stress on the first a - Ankaŭ - not "ankAŭ".)
To answer your question:
Skip "syllables". Count the vowels (a, e, i, o, u) instead.
tiu has the stress on i
tiuj also has the stress on i
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I believe that when the -j plural marker is added on, the syllable to which it is attached becomes a diphthong, meaning it is still one syllable with a sort of 'blended together' sound. So if "tiu" is pronounced like "TEE-oo", the word "tiuj" would then be pronounced "TEE-ooee".
A similar effect occurs with the 'a' and 'ŭ' in "aŭto", or just "aŭ". Alone, the 'a' is just an "ah" sound, but when 'ŭ' is added to it, there's still only one syllable, but pronounced together like "ow" (as in "out").
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I unfortunately can't read such English pronunciation guides, but here are some other examples for you to listen to:
I'm a little confused; if Ci is 'these' and tiuj is 'these' then why have them together?
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"Ĉi" doesn't mean "these". It's used to indicate proximity. E.g. "Tie" - "there", "Ĉi tie" - "here".
Oh mi vidas! When I hovered over the Ci (sorry I can't get the accent over the top), it said 'these' and then the same on the tiuj. I understand much better now. Dankon Stephen :0
there are a few different ways to do the accent, but in general if you're not able to do it it's considered acceptable to use the letter x instead. so for example, instead of ĉi you would say cxi, and instead of manĝas you would say mangxas
why is this "ĉi tiuj" and not "ĉi tioj"? I thought tiu was only for when you were talking about people?
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Here “ĉi tiuj” is a determiner followed by the object “aŭtoj”, i.e. “these cars”. “ĉi tioj” is a pronoun like “these” in “These are good.” (Ĉi tioj estas bona.).
“tiu” can be used for both people and objects. According to the context, “kiu” can be “which” or “who”.
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In practice only the correlatives ending in -a and -u take the plural -j. Don't know why, but you never see "tioj"
This could probably be because 'Kio (What)' never has a plural answer. It probably comes naturally to us but whenever we expect a plural answer to our question we instinctively use 'Kiu (Which)' rather than 'kio'.
Thus, A demonstrative pronoun answer to Kio could be either tio (that) or cxi tio (this) but never those or these. If we assume 'those' and 'these' to be plurals for 'that' and 'this' respectively, they do not answer a 'what' question. They answer a 'Kiu' question. Hence, we have tiuj (those) and cxi tiuj (these).
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In fact, you can -- you just can't do it in the Duolingo course. The course makes a very strict difference between "this" and "that" which is not always observed in reality.
Occasionally when I say this, my comments will get voted down (presumably by people who have learned in the course that "Ĉi tie" means "here" not "there"), but nobody has yet to give an example of a single appearance of a demonstrative word like this, appearing by itself with no other demonstratives as contrasts, where this distinction matters.
I can point to a spot right in front of me on a table and say "look there, there's an ant on the table!" and nobody will question it.
So, back to the original sentence, if I were to come up to a bunch of cars for sale, I could very easily drop the ĉi. But, if the conversation was more like this:
- Ĉu tiuj aŭtoj estas bonaj?
- Ne, ili estas malbonaj, sed ĉi tiuj aŭtoj estas bonaj.
... in this case, you can't drop the ĉi.
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Well, I'll up vote you because these are the practical kind of explanations that I need.
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"tiuj aŭtoj" would be "those cars". "Ĉi" indicates proximity in space or time. So "Ĉi tie" means "here" not "there", "Ĉi-nokte" means "tonight" not "at night" or "nightly".
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In English that would make no sense. The adjectives do not add an "s" when the noun does in English.
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See here for more info on correlatives: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_vocabulary#Correlatives
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As Learning German said below, "ĉi tioj" would be used for "these are" as they are indefinite. "Ĉi tiuj" has a definite subject, do ni diras "these cars are".
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The correlatives that end in -io (including tio) do not take the -j ending.
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Dankon! This exactly answers the question I have (which might be discussed in the tips & notes, but I am on mobile app right now).
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This is an indirect translation, though there are exceptions for the mal- words in other exercises.
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It's a selfie I took a few years ago walking up to Dalehead from Newlands Valley in Cumbria.
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You're thinking of ĉu. Ĉu is the particle for questions. Ĉi shows that something is closer. It changes "that" to "this."
