"Mi ne konas ŝin, nek volas koni ŝin."

Translation:I do not know her, nor do I want to know her.

May 31, 2015

82 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexDalton314

Esperanto for the anti-social?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ManelPedro1

That momment when I understand perfectly what is written in Esperanto but I can't translate it correctly to English...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/camcamcam753

That is the first step to fluency (and non-fluency in English), grasshopper.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UgoFlickerman

Meh, if the course was in my mother tongue...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kippis

For confirmation: is Mi ne konas ŝin, kaj volas koni ŝin. a valid sentence meaning I do not know her and I want to know her.?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Migranto

I would say not. "And" doesn't seem to make sense here because the second part of the sentence seems in contradiction to the first. I thought this sentence meant "I don't know her, but I want to know her."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kippis

First of all I admit that I wouldn't use a sentence structured like "I do not know her and I want to know her", but nonetheless I think it does make sense, because the "and" could be interpreted in the sense of "and therefore". At least that was what I thought, and wanted to know if the same interpretation is possible in Esperanto (and if so it's problematic that "kaj" is in the choices of the selecting problem).

But since I'm not a native English speaker, I'm ready to withdraw my question if the initial assumption was wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Migranto

You're right; the "and therefore" meaning would work. My ears didn't hear it that way at first.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/israel.roldan

I have the same question, it feels to me that it should be accepted!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nadario

Nek means nor or neither which are both negative, so separating those sentience would say "I don't know her. I do not want to know her." saying and makes it seem that you want to get to know her but the translation is say you don't know here and you do not want to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KirbTX

Same page here, I feel like both options should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chaypeta

Yes, I thought that was perfectly valid as well. although maybe 'sed' might sound better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zamlet

This one wasn't quite fair. The only place I'd ever seen the word "nek" before was in the tips and notes section, where it was only shown as part of the nek...nek construction. I didn't know it could be used only once in a sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mW4227

You're lucky: mobile users dont have a "tips and notes" section


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davgwynne

Mobile users can use the browser on their phones to request desktop site and access the tips and notes from that.

If the phone’s own browser fails to do this (and many do fail for some reason) then try installing chrome browser.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hellomidnight

Good news for people on mobile who want to read the Tips & Notes, they are all available in one place here:

https://duome.eu/tips/en/eo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnalystBiomecha

Well, nek means either neither or nor, depending on the content.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/water_color

Actually I think the sentence is very anglicised, and it's probably not a good habit to use "nek" only once in a sentence in Esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

For some reason, people in the comments section are very quick to blame things they don't like or misunderstand on "anglicisms." I've written a whole post on this.

In this case - it might make sense to read through what PIV and PMEG say about nek before giving out advice like this.

See links.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Links:

PMEG - scroll down to nek

https://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/neado.html

PIV

https://vortaro.net/#nek_k

Read the example sentences with one nek such as

  • mi ne renkontis lin, nek lian fraton Z;
  • ne helpas plendo nek ploro kontraŭ kreditoro Z;
  • nenia peno nek provo donos lakton de bovo Z;
  • mi flanke sidis, mi ne aŭdis nek vidis Z;
  • vero ne bezonas mediti nek spriti Z;

My post about anglicisms.

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/42193904/New-rule-about-ANGLICISMS-and-ESPERANTO


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smef.

How is scii different from konas?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Generally:

  • scii = to mentally possess a fact
  • koni = to be familiar with a person or place

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Would these be the same as French "savoir" and "connaître" respectively?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.rosebud

it seems that way to me, but i'm not very good at either (french or esperanto)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nastassia.V

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/16462168/Scii-vs-Koni

For German speakers I would explain it this way:

scii - wissen

koni - kennen

But maybe it's not completely right, so please correct me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/memyself9

Shoudn't it be "Mi nek konas ŝin, nek volas koni ŝin"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lingvulo

That would also be correct (and should be accepted), but it's fine to use ne...nek the way they have it here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/memyself9

So how can I know if I should use nek...nek or ne...nek?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crlight

Nek...nek is neither...nor. Ne...nek is not...nor.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidStone528925

Actually, that's what I thought he said in the recording, and it made more sense to me than ne...nek.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvyDupre

Someone is a little feisty today, aren't they.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KimBlackson

So, does it mean "I don't know her nor do I want to know her"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleHuedMagPie

I translated the sentence the same way (glad I'm not alone). Seems kinda pompous thing to say though...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cristian1914

Estoy aprendiendo demasiado inglés con este curso de Esperanto @_@


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BossLearner87

Finally, someone who knows there stuff. Thankyou kind sir.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BossLearner87

Oh past me I was looking for the oblivion too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrMatryoshka

Well, that's nice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emmanuel_Almazan

Would the sentence "Mi ne konas sxin, kaj ne volas koni sxin?" mean the same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiniC1

"ne konas" and "nek konas" are pretty difficult to differentiate!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Espels

English is not my first language, can someone explain why to use "do I", in the second clouse? "I do not know her, nor want to know her?" Would it be correct? Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidStone528925

To my native English ears, "I do not know her, nor want to know her" (with or without the comma before 'nor') sounds a bit odd but because the subject ("I") is so far from the second verb. It would be easily understood in print, but most people wouldn't talk like this.

In fact, the much more preferable way of communicating this idea would be as follows: "I neither know her nor want to know her."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Espels

Thanks a lot, can I ask one more question.Does it work this way and the same meaninng:

I don't know her and not want to know her. Or (I don't know her and don't want to know her)

P.S. your example with neither....nor is very useful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidStone528925

Hi, YutYut. Your first example isn't "good" English. But your second example is perfect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Espels

Thanks again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayElSin

Ouch i come back to duolingo and i forgot how harsh it can be sometimes

Also, hiiii mods!! Its great to see you again. Idk if you remember me, but im glad to be back :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arono3

Now be nice to Melania. She has a rough life.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Salvesen

When should I use konas and when should I use koni?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

It's "koni" here because "volas" is the main verb. Every clause can have one and only one main verb. Other verbs are usually infinitive, that is, they end in -i. The sentence above has two clauses.

  • Mi ne konas lin.
  • Mi ne volas koni lin.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/High_Raccoon

(C) Ulrich Leland.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mathisjustatool

Who made this sentence or is saying like this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabriella519419

"I do not know her ,nor I want to know her". Why incorrect? I think that the "do" sounds nice but is not essential.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

This native British English speaker would disagree with you, I'm afraid. The "do" would be essential here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabriella519419

Thanks! I'am italian so I needed an answer from somebody like you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

It sounds wrong to me too. (US speaker.) I could, however, imagine:

  • "I do not know her, nor want to know her".
  • "I neither know her, nor want to know her".

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MayElSin

Im not from the US, but I am from British Columbia in Canada. It honestly sounds rather fluid and natural, but it could also be because of my familiarity with french, and how french native speakers interact in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew872711

Is the difference between scii and koni similar to the difference between the Spanish verbs saber and conocer? That is, scii refers mostly to knowing facts, and koni refers mostly to knowing people?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I'll give that a good solid "maybe." Assuming I know the difference between "saber" and "conocer" (not guaranteed), I suspect this would be a good first approximation, but for sure there will be some specific examples where this steers you wrong.

It's generally true to say that scii is for facts and koni is for people -- but it may be better to say:

  • scii - to have knowledge - i.e. to know a fact
  • koni - to be familiar with - e.g. to know a person or place

In some cases, either can apply with a different nuance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David_Godwin7

Although English may frequently do the "inferring the subject" thing, I don't believe that such inferring should be present in Esperanto. The original sentence should be recast as ...

Mi ne konas ŝin, nek mi volas koni ŝin.

... if the Esperanto gods want "nor do I" in the English translation.

Do other languages (besides English and Esperanto) do the "inferring the subject" thing in clauses? I'm just curious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

For better or worse, the question isn't what you or think should be, the fact is that this is part of Esperanto and has been for a long time. Here's an example from well over 100 years ago:

  • Sed se ia vorto nek estas sendube internacia nek havas por si apartan radikon en la Universala Vortaro kaj esprimi ĝin per kunmeto de radikoj jam ekzistantaj estas aŭ tute ne eble, aŭ tro neoportune, aŭ teknike ne precize – tiam tiun ĉi vorton ĉiu aŭtoro povas mem krei laŭ sia bontrovo, tiel same kiel oni ĝin faras en ĉiu alia lingvo.

I think your modification is more obscure than the original because it puts mi in immediate proximity to nek. The original sentence looks like this.

I:

  • don't know her
  • nor want to know her

Yours looks something like this. I do not know her - and it's not me who wants to know her.

And it's not "inferring the subject" - it's more like having more than one verb refer to the same subject.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swati944477

Cant we use scias and scii instead of konas?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

No.

The difference is explained elsewhere in this thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarloGamag1

Why is the second "do" necessary? English is not my first language but I think that "nor I want to etc." should, at the least, be also accepted!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLamb53073

If you put a second "I" in, then "do" is needed: "I do not know her, nor do I want to know her". Otherwise, you can miss both the second "I" and "do" out: "I do not know her, nor want to know her".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Henry987307

"Mi ne konas vin, kaj mi ne volas koni vin." - NPC en Oblivion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanRoe3

what is the difference between konas and scias?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLamb53073

"Konas" is for knowing a person, or being acquainted with a place. "Scias" is for knowing facts. So you would say, "Mi bone konas Londonon" (I know London well) and "Li konas ŝian patron" (He knows her father). But you would say, "Mi scias la veron" (I know the truth), and "Li scias, ke ses plus kvin estas dek unu" (He knows that six plus five is eleven).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kasianenkoff

It's because "Ne, mi ne volas diri al vi mian nomon".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLamb53073

Sorry, what is because "Ne, mi ne volas diri al vi mian nomon"? Did you mean that is the reason for the speaker not knowing or wanting to know her?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kasianenkoff

Yes, you're correct. If she sad "Ne, mi ne volas diri al vi mian nomon.", than you can say: "Mi ne konas ŝin, nek volas koni ŝin."

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