"Se mennesket!"

Translation:Behold the man!

May 31, 2015

47 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanne-Thomase

Love that Ecce homo is accepted :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StellarHowl

What is ecce homo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SylvainMou12

It's a famous sentence in the Bible, said by Ponce Pilate designing Jesus Christ to the hostile crowd. From that, it's also the name given to artistic depictions of the Christ crowned with thorns (at least in English, French and Norwegian).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltonRoth

In Greek the word in “Behold the man” was clearly male: Ἰδοὺ ὁ ἄνθρωπος. In Vulgate Latin too: ecce homo. In several German translations I find “der Mensch”, which has a male gender but can refer to humans in general. The Norwegian menneske is always neuter. In an older Norwegian translation it was Se det menneske! (Det Norsk Bibelselskap 1930). But in a newer one, it was Se denne mann!» (En Levende Bok), which renders the Greek better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/londoncallling

Anthropos (I can't do Greek letters on my phone) is masculine only in the grammatical sense. It means human person and can refer to a man or woman. The ancient Greek for man in the masculine sense was aner (long e). So menneske is actually the perfect translation. It's English that confuses the issue because man used to mean mankind in general, but now only means a male.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hrafnunga

Yep, the Latin also means "human being, person" in addition to man.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mprdo

And at least 10 lesson groups earlier, we learned "man" is used for "one" (as in "man kan betaler").10jul17


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kanakakisermis

Mann is not the same as man.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PrmExr2487

"Bibelen Guds Ord" (1997) translates it as 《Se Det Mennesket!》


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MannuBeyHive

To behold = å se?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cecilence

For a non native English speaker and a non Christian, it is very difficult to make sense out of this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imenmess

yep! i agree. it is a weird sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nieudany

Is "se" an imperative form of "ser" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae

Indeed it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rose.boi

Why not just 'Se mannen'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaggiePye

Because in this context you want the connotation of "mankind/humankind," not just "adult male human."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaid.

Not today, Diogenes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bunchybunc

Famous 'quote' aside, would 'See the humans' be an accepted translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae

"See the human!" would be, but not the plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/datsyl82

I think this is great. Keeps the learning process interesting beyond just practical travel phrases


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Riley_DM02

Featherless biped


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Morgan1039

What does this sentence mean? Am I missing something? There has to be something I'm missing here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Candidandelion

The explanation is given in several of the other comments here :)

(In short, it is a quote from the Bible.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VincentL66

Shouldn't duolingo be neutral?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PKjempe

I'm not quite sure I shall ever use this phrase while in Norway so doubt its usefulness on this course... Unless this is a popular phrase in Norway?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Candidandelion

I hope I'll never have to say "there is a man with a knife behind the curtain" either, but it makes it more interesting to learn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Proxima12

exactly. "hun redder meg fra bjørnen!" is also a sentence I have seen here, not expect to use that often and probably most Norwegians never get into that situation, but it is still very much fun to learn it:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ycUvuSap

Luckily the course is not restricted to travel and everyday vocabulary; makes it much more interesting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltonRoth

The point is that students of language should try to use gender-neutral translations. Menneske is gender neutral, man is not. So if the student did not understand the cultural literary reference, which is usually translated from the Latin as, "Behold the Man", the correct translation would be "see the person." "See the "human being" ,"see the human", or "see him/her" are possible but seem more stilted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_Jane

Why should students try to use gender neutral translations? I can understand being sensitive of gendered language in your own speech but if you are translating someone else's words shouldn't your aim to to confer what they are saying as precisely as possible?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laura-f

yes. isnt "menneske" and gender-neutral word? (maybe i am wrong here, but i thought it meant "person", whereas "man" would be "mann). then, in order to stay true to the words you are translating, "menneske" should be translated as "person" and not as "man" or "woman". correct me if i am wrong, i am only hear to learn :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ani_Jane

It's a quote from the bible where Pilate is referring to Jesus. So it is a specific male person in question, not mankind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BafouillCharabia

I discover today "behold the man" and I was not disturbed :

  1. We have the translation inside the dotted line
  2. When we learn a language we know that the literal translation is often not possible.
  3. If we get a wrong answer, we just check the good one, maybe we ask in the discussion if we don't understand something, and next time it will be easy to answer.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltonRoth

Nowadays "the man" seems sexist, while "mennesket" is not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanne-Thomase

Sexist?
You know it's a quote, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Howard

Pilate wasn't speaking English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltonRoth

Yes, translated correctly from the Latin because of its reference. However, for beginning students using this quote for translation could be confusing, since usually "mennesket" is better translated "human beings" or "humans."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanne-Thomase

"MenneskET" is always better translated as "THE human being" or "THE human".
Anyhow, "sexist" is the least appropriate word to express discontent with the inappropriateness of the sentence. So, even if the course authors made an ill choice of wording, then so did you, no offense :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rogerbeam

I'm just wondering whether the word Mennesket is not gender-biased, etymologically speaking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ycUvuSap

Ordboka https://ordbok.uib.no/perl/ordbok.cgi?OPP=menneske sier: "fra gammelfrisisk manniska, menneska, jamfør norrønt manneskja og mennskr 'menneskelig'; beslektet med mann"

Naob er enig: https://www.naob.no/ordbok/menneske

Men at to ord er beslektet er ikke hva du spørte om, dessverre. Du kan gjøre forskning videre selv.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patrick_Irish

Good to know what to say to annoy the SJW types.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oppikoppi

Only by certain nimwits.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaltonRoth

Getting back to something more serious, I wonder if "MenneskET" is always better translated as THE human being.." I don't know Norwegian very well, but in German, "der Mensch" can be a way of expressing an abstract category that in English is often translated as "human beings" or "humans."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oppikoppi

I would say it translates exactly to der Mensch.

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