"Ĉu vi havas prageavojn?"

Translation:Do you have great-grandparents?

June 2, 2015

57 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kaybekwa

why not gepraavojn?

June 2, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

That's also fine. I'd personally would probably use ge·pra·av·o·j, but there's no difference in meaning (both genders of removed by one generation grandparents = removed by one generation both genders of grandparents).

Sometimes changing the order of your affixes don't necessarily change meaning, but emphasised aspects of the thing (ekz. bo·ge·patr·o·j = ge·bo·patr·o·j). But also remember that not always you can shuffle them (ekz. hund·id·et·ohund·et·id·o).

June 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zerozeroone

Okay, you have my curiosity up. Is this a rule like, say, -id- must always come first in a set of suffixes? Or is it "small offspring of a dog" versus "offspring of a small dog"?

July 5, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

It's the difference in meaning, just like you've described it: “little puppy” vs “puppy of a little dog”. :)

If you want to know more about redescribing and redefining words using the Esperanto rules of word formation I highly recommend you to read “Word formation in Esperanto” by Ed Robertson.

July 5, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brian_Batch

I don't think that's incorrect, but I find it better to emphasize the "great-" first to be best understood.

June 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lion_herzen

No, my grandparents were born spontaneously from the ground

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Amusing, mine came out of a bay and some guy's forehead.

May 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LukeEdgar

Don't we all?

June 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silvaIguer

Some people's great grandparents are dead, so it is said that the person does not have great grandparents (anymore). And sometimes, yet, some people do not know their great grandparents...

January 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0zikoo

I only met once one of my 8 great grandparents. Most of people don't meet great grandparents often

June 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

You can edit any typing errors in your comment with the EDIT button below your text.

June 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

Indeed, we don't.

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I don't have time this second to find a reference, but I thought I'd chime in and point out that the "ge" - for whatever reason - always goes before the root. So it's "prageavoj" , not "gepraavoj".

My (unverified) thought is that putting "ge" anywhere else would modify a different element, and since "gepra-" is nonsense, you wouldn't put the "ge" before the "pra."

I like to double check what I post before I post it, so I might come back and edit this if need be.

Edit: Two years later, I have nothing to add. That's exactly it. "gepra-" is nonsensical. "geav-" is not.

May 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Feanor

So how do we say great great great-grandparents? pra pra prageavojn?

June 5, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brian_Batch

Jes! More like pra-pra-prageavojn.

June 5, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crmoorhead

Lover of the Russian Queen...

January 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I think you meant "Russian Queavojn".

January 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

As in English you probably wouldn't put spaces between “greats” and write “great-great-great-grandparent”, in Esperanto you cannot put them between pra-s, because they're not words on their own, but affixes. There's no need for dashes dividing pra-s but if you like, you may use them. Also, you can write your ge- at the beginning and it wouldn't change the meaning.

So “great-great-great-grandparents” would be prapraprageavojn or gepraprapraavojn.

June 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xigoi

Could it also be, just theoretically, prapragepraavojn?

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

From the purely logical point of view, considering only explicit rules of word formation in Esperanto — yes, it could be.

But after analysing a sufficient amount of texts in Esperanto a descriptivist would deduct in this case another “rule” — when changing the order of affixes wouldn't change the meaning, repeated affixes are put together. :)

Let's compare number of occurrences found by Google:

gepraavo(j) — 4803

prageavo(j) — 2619

geprapraavo(j) — 3

praprageavo(j) — 8

pragepraavo(j) — 0

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Searching through published text in Tekstaro gives a very different distribution.

August 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

Which is? Does it change the ratio of pragepraavoj?

June 27, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zerr_

Yes, I believe. It would be better to place the pras first, but it should be acceptable.

May 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiNewt

You can also say praa praa prageavojn too right?

August 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

You cannot and there are two reasons. First, the number and case of the adjective has to fit to the noun, so grammaticaly it has to be praajn geavojn. But more importantly: the adjective praa means “prehistoric, primeval” and I bet it's not what you're trying to say about your grandparents. :)

August 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Pra-pra-prageavoj, aŭ kelkaj generacioj de prageavoj aŭ …

Kiel mbalicki diris: praa signifas "primeval, primitive" Kiom da jaroj vivas vian familion? Ĉu vi parencas kun Metuŝelaĥ?

August 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiNewt

Oh yeah, my mistake, I meant praajn praajn prageavojn.

August 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/voidIndigo

Everybody does. Not all in this world, though.

January 6, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Now now, just because we're all mortal doesn't mean that you need to be snooty about it.

But it was tough to watch them die way back when.

May 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/voidIndigo

So many languages, so many letters slipping tHrough the fingers...;o) Thanks!

May 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Dankon for havi senson de humoro. ;)

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

A sense can't be of humour in Esperanto. :D

Dankon por havi humuron. or Dankon, por ke vi havas humuron.

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Mi kredis tion, sed, kiam mi kontrolis la Esperanto/Angla vortaro de Butler, kaj la malnova vortaro de Wells, mi trovis en ambaŭ lokoj "senso de humoro-n."

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

@FredCapp: Ne, tio certe estas angleca eraro. :)

Unue memoru, ke humoro estas angle „mood, temper”, kaj „humour, a quality of being amusing or funny” estas humuro. Memoru ankaŭ, ke senso estas „sense, a manner of perceiving the physical world” (kiel aŭdadovidado), kaj „sense, feeling, perception through the intellect” estas sento (kp. kun la verbo senti).

Do logike eblas diri esperante pri la sento de humuro. Per Tekstaro mi trovis nur du uzoj de tiu esprimo kaj neniu uzo de la aliaj kunaĵoj. :)

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Ha! Mi malleterumis! Dankon.

Mi legis sento de humoro kaj demetis la libron kaj skribis (kaj memoris) senso

Kia fuŝo mi faris!

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

Ne dankinde. :) Sed memoru, ke la esprimo sento de humuro estas nekutima kaj normale oni diras simple je havi humuron.

May 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kholden83

Not any more.

June 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BigMac_ComboMeal

Ne, sed mi havis prageavojn.

September 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/haxolotl

They're alright i guess

January 7, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnMoser1

Missing the hyphen apparently gets you a wrong answer instead of a grammar note. Not sure if that's a problem or if you should be slapped for bad English grammar.

February 25, 2016

[deactivated user]

    I did the same as you, JohnMoser1. I think it might be because in English, a "great grandfather" is a grandfather who is really good, cool, swell, whereas a "great-grandfather" is a grandfather's father.

    May 27, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Did you report it?

    May 20, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnMoser1

    No, not entirely certain if it's a problem or if it's a reasonable response to saying something semantically-different via bad grammar.

    May 20, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MebKohu

    Ne, ili ne logxas.

    May 29, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    Ne (plu) vivas.

    Loĝi means “to live” but in a sense “to reside, to dwell, to inhabit” and vivi is “to live” in a sense “to be alive”.

    May 29, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MebKohu

    Dankon! I had forgotten about vivi when I typed my comment.

    May 31, 2016

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RomanHargrave

    No, I'm a clone.

    March 10, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Vi pensas, ke vi estas klono nun?

    kapsignas al Weird Alĉjon

    March 10, 2017

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamScott794079

    Miaj geavoj bonegas (bonega geavojn? Cxu vi komprenas?)

    June 16, 2017

    [deactivated user]

      I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps you meant, "Miaj geavoj estas bonegaj"? But what is the connection with the sentence "Ĉu vi ha vas prageavojn? " And what is "Preanas"?

      June 16, 2017

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamScott794079

      fixed my error, you have a space in ha vas, it is a pun, my grandparents are great (miaj geavoj bonegas), I have great grandparents (mi havas prageavojn) and prenas was supposed to be get it, but it is actually more like take it, but i have fixed that to "cxu vi komprenas?"

      June 16, 2017

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronlin2808

      why prageavojn and not gepraavojn?

      August 14, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

      Both are correct, one is more often. Please read previous comments to learn more.

      August 14, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      Although it's worth pointing out that truth is not determined by votes on a forum.

      August 15, 2018

      [deactivated user]

        No they're all dead :/

        June 2, 2016
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