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  5. "Ĉu vi havas prageavojn?"

"Ĉu vi havas prageavojn?"

Translation:Do you have great-grandparents?

June 2, 2015

53 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kaybekwa

why not gepraavojn?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

That's also fine. I'd personally would probably use ge·pra·av·o·j, but there's no difference in meaning (both genders of removed by one generation grandparents = removed by one generation both genders of grandparents).

Sometimes changing the order of your affixes don't necessarily change meaning, but emphasised aspects of the thing (ekz. bo·ge·patr·o·j = ge·bo·patr·o·j). But also remember that not always you can shuffle them (ekz. hund·id·et·ohund·et·id·o).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zerozeroone

Okay, you have my curiosity up. Is this a rule like, say, -id- must always come first in a set of suffixes? Or is it "small offspring of a dog" versus "offspring of a small dog"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

It's the difference in meaning, just like you've described it: “little puppy” vs “puppy of a little dog”. :)

If you want to know more about redescribing and redefining words using the Esperanto rules of word formation I highly recommend you to read “Word formation in Esperanto” by Ed Robertson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ACA_TOY

As of May 19th, 2020 the server appears to be down or the site does not exist anymore :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

The content has been archived in the Wayback Machine: < https://web.archive.org/web/20160413081547/http://cindymckee.com/librejo/Word_formation_in_Esperanto.pdf >. It's likely it's also in a depository somewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brian_Batch

I don't think that's incorrect, but I find it better to emphasize the "great-" first to be best understood.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lion_herzen

No, my grandparents were born spontaneously from the ground


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Amusing, mine came out of a bay and some guy's forehead.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silvaIguer

Some people's great grandparents are dead, so it is said that the person does not have great grandparents (anymore). And sometimes, yet, some people do not know their great grandparents...


[deactivated user]

    I only met once one of my 8 great grandparents. Most of people don't meet great grandparents often


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

    You can edit any typing errors in your comment with the EDIT button below your text.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

    Indeed, we don't.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    I don't have time this second to find a reference, but I thought I'd chime in and point out that the "ge" - for whatever reason - always goes before the root. So it's "prageavoj" , not "gepraavoj".

    My (unverified) thought is that putting "ge" anywhere else would modify a different element, and since "gepra-" is nonsense, you wouldn't put the "ge" before the "pra."

    I like to double check what I post before I post it, so I might come back and edit this if need be.

    Edit: Two years later, I have nothing to add. That's exactly it. "gepra-" is nonsensical. "geav-" is not.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Feanor

    So how do we say great great great-grandparents? pra pra prageavojn?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brian_Batch

    Jes! More like pra-pra-prageavojn.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crmoorhead

    Lover of the Russian Queen...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    I think you meant "Russian Queavojn".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    As in English you probably wouldn't put spaces between “greats” and write “great-great-great-grandparent”, in Esperanto you cannot put them between pra-s, because they're not words on their own, but affixes. There's no need for dashes dividing pra-s but if you like, you may use them. Also, you can write your ge- at the beginning and it wouldn't change the meaning.

    So “great-great-great-grandparents” would be prapraprageavojn or gepraprapraavojn.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xigoi

    Could it also be, just theoretically, prapragepraavojn?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    From the purely logical point of view, considering only explicit rules of word formation in Esperanto — yes, it could be.

    But after analysing a sufficient amount of texts in Esperanto a descriptivist would deduct in this case another “rule” — when changing the order of affixes wouldn't change the meaning, repeated affixes are put together. :)

    Let's compare number of occurrences found by Google:

    gepraavo(j) — 4803

    prageavo(j) — 2619

    geprapraavo(j) — 3

    praprageavo(j) — 8

    pragepraavo(j) — 0


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    Searching through published text in Tekstaro gives a very different distribution.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P_Azul

    Which is? Does it change the ratio of pragepraavoj?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zerr_

    Yes, I believe. It would be better to place the pras first, but it should be acceptable.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiNewt

    You can also say praa praa prageavojn too right?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    You cannot and there are two reasons. First, the number and case of the adjective has to fit to the noun, so grammaticaly it has to be praajn geavojn. But more importantly: the adjective praa means “prehistoric, primeval” and I bet it's not what you're trying to say about your grandparents. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Pra-pra-prageavoj, aŭ kelkaj generacioj de prageavoj aŭ …

    Kiel mbalicki diris: praa signifas "primeval, primitive" Kiom da jaroj vivas vian familion? Ĉu vi parencas kun Metuŝelaĥ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/voidIndigo

    Everybody does. Not all in this world, though.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Now now, just because we're all mortal doesn't mean that you need to be snooty about it.

    But it was tough to watch them die way back when.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/voidIndigo

    So many languages, so many letters slipping tHrough the fingers...;o) Thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Dankon for havi senson de humoro. ;)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    A sense can't be of humour in Esperanto. :D

    Dankon por havi humuron. or Dankon, por ke vi havas humuron.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Mi kredis tion, sed, kiam mi kontrolis la Esperanto/Angla vortaro de Butler, kaj la malnova vortaro de Wells, mi trovis en ambaŭ lokoj "senso de humoro-n."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    @FredCapp: Ne, tio certe estas angleca eraro. :)

    Unue memoru, ke humoro estas angle „mood, temper”, kaj „humour, a quality of being amusing or funny” estas humuro. Memoru ankaŭ, ke senso estas „sense, a manner of perceiving the physical world” (kiel aŭdadovidado), kaj „sense, feeling, perception through the intellect” estas sento (kp. kun la verbo senti).

    Do logike eblas diri esperante pri la sento de humuro. Per Tekstaro mi trovis nur du uzoj de tiu esprimo kaj neniu uzo de la aliaj kunaĵoj. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

    Ha! Mi malleterumis! Dankon.

    Mi legis sento de humoro kaj demetis la libron kaj skribis (kaj memoris) senso

    Kia fuŝo mi faris!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

    Ne dankinde. :) Sed memoru, ke la esprimo sento de humuro estas nekutima kaj normale oni diras simple je havi humuron.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BigMac_ComboMeal

    Ne, sed mi havis prageavojn.


    [deactivated user]

      They're alright i guess


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnMoser1

      Missing the hyphen apparently gets you a wrong answer instead of a grammar note. Not sure if that's a problem or if you should be slapped for bad English grammar.


      [deactivated user]

        I did the same as you, JohnMoser1. I think it might be because in English, a "great grandfather" is a grandfather who is really good, cool, swell, whereas a "great-grandfather" is a grandfather's father.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

        Did you report it?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnMoser1

        No, not entirely certain if it's a problem or if it's a reasonable response to saying something semantically-different via bad grammar.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MebKohu

        Ne, ili ne logxas.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mbalicki

        Ne (plu) vivas.

        Loĝi means “to live” but in a sense “to reside, to dwell, to inhabit” and vivi is “to live” in a sense “to be alive”.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MebKohu

        Dankon! I had forgotten about vivi when I typed my comment.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamScott794079

        Miaj geavoj bonegas (bonega geavojn? Cxu vi komprenas?)


        [deactivated user]

          I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps you meant, "Miaj geavoj estas bonegaj"? But what is the connection with the sentence "Ĉu vi ha vas prageavojn? " And what is "Preanas"?


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamScott794079

          fixed my error, you have a space in ha vas, it is a pun, my grandparents are great (miaj geavoj bonegas), I have great grandparents (mi havas prageavojn) and prenas was supposed to be get it, but it is actually more like take it, but i have fixed that to "cxu vi komprenas?"


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronlin2808

          why prageavojn and not gepraavojn?

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