"Til og med jeg kan danse!"

Translation: Even I can dance!

[chelsea162395]

This hurts my brain

[Dewingtons]

Same

[kakaoweokulary]

Is "Selv jeg kan danse" another way to say it?

[Deliciae]

Yes, that would work just as well.

[LukaAlien]

Seems way easier, I mistook 'til og med' for something like 'to and with'.

[babbeloergosum]

Jeg kan det ikke :P

[KirkEasterson]

Ikke med den holdningen =P

[Liefhebber]

so 'til og med' isn't reagrded as adverb here or... it's got me wondering why 'kan' is in the third position

[amaratea]

YES, its the third comment to your post from me! But I found the answer. "Second position" does not mean that it will be second literally, it refers only to the logic. You will see the same thing happening with examples like "only you". So til-og-med-jeg is ALL counted as first position. Sorry for overposting, there is no edit button in mobile app :)

[amaratea]

It is counted as one, just like "i dag" or "sekund etter sekund" would be

[Meg-Annan]

Here you can hear the g in og when she pronounces it...is it pronounced "og" or is the g silent, so like "oh"?

[Deliciae]

It can be pronounced either way, but typically people with an Eastern dialect will pronounce it "å" when unstressed, and "åg" for emphasis.

[MuttFitness]

What do us learners do to tell which one the person is saying? context only?

[Deliciae]

Yes, but as one is a conjunction and the other an infinitive marker there really is no way they could be confused.

[jf_cabralperez]

Is there a way to correlate "til og med" word-by-word with "even" or is it purely idiomatic?

[VengerR]

"Up to and including" would be the closest way, it seems.

[GalaSemich]

In this case, "kan" is not in the second position. I understant that "til og med" is a single phrase and occupies the first position, but... What about the "jeg" there? Shouldn't it be after "kan"? How could I explain that?

[KristenSchroeder]

I came here with the same question!

[elif_melissa]

I remember this from "Jeg Heter Finn" :) Til og med Gjertrud!

[itslikecsaki]

Yessss! That's where I know it from too! :)

Also that's where I know how stupid it sounds to say Gjertrud in Norwegian. :D

[kashhhhhhhhhh]

no forced V2 here?

[KristenSchroeder]

I recently had the V2 rule explained to me this way, and i think it can help explain this sentence's word order:

You should think of the words of a sentence filling different 'boxes' -each box is a word or group of words that can answer a 'who, what, how, when', etc type question.

The V2 rule means that the tensed verb has to be in the second 'box'. So you can have the sentence: 'jeg kan danse nå'. Here we can think of it as having 'three boxes': [jeg] [kan danse] [nå]. Who? -> jeg, What? -> kan danse, When? -> nå. If you start the sentence with nå, we know the verb has got to be in the second box, so we get: nå kan jeg danse.

With this sentence, the 'til og meg jeg' (meaning 'even I') is the group of words that answers the 'who' of the sentence, so it all goes in the same box. So, in this case, the verb is in the second position or 'box' even though its the 5th word in the sentence.

[vilma572653]

Til og med is very often used when talking about time.. for example - Til og med fredag.. but I have not noticed (until now) that it would be used in such sense as here..

[Vernice64]

So, 'til og med' means 'even'?

[OtherDann]

Looking at it, it means "up to and including me". It's a very long-winded way of saying "even I"
I think it probably demonstrates that english is a very mongrel and complex language, in some ways.

[SvenHegen]

Phil Collins anybody?