1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Esperanto
  4. >
  5. cx gx hx jx sx ux now work!

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Junesun

cx gx hx jx sx ux now work!

The X-System now works! :D It doesn't convert on the fly, but it does accept cx, gx, hx, jx, sx, ux instead of ĉ, ĝ, ĥ, ĵ, ŝ, ŭ as alternative spellings. Thanks a_david!

La X-sistemo nun funkcias! :D Ĝi ne konvertas literojn dum vi tajpas, sed ĝi ja akceptas cx, gx, hx, jx, sx, ux anstataŭ ĉ, ĝ, ĥ, ĵ, ŝ, ŭ kiel alternativaj literumoj. Dankon al a_david!

Duolingo accepts Cx for Ĉ

June 3, 2015

77 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vinofreddo

Woohoo :D This'll be a big help for me, since I haven't found a way to type Esperanto characters on my Microsoft Surface tablet - I've been using the buttons so far!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Senlando

Yeah, I'm so happy to see the x system in place! I've been using it for years because most computers don't have an easy why to type Esperanto letters readily installed. Over the last week, I've been writing the characters without the special hats on the letters and would always get the "spelling error notice" which is annoying when you know how to spell it, you just can't be bothered to click the right letter (very time consuming!) or your keyboard isn't set up properly.

The x system is a good way for me to take notice that a special letter is used in a place and is a way for me to let the Duolingo program know that I know and am not just making a bunch of errors because I don't know the difference between the sounds and letters.

A lot of people say that the x system is ugly, I would agree but after a while I got used to it. For me it makes Esperanto look more exotic and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Excellent! That will make Esperanto-ing on my computer much easier :D Thanks, a_david :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

Thx Duo staff, and EO/EN team of course!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ferrum

I made a Firefox extension that allows the X-system for Duolingo answers, but converts on-the-fly as you type, which means the text you write is both easy to type and standard to read.

If you would like that feature, you can install the extension from here: https://people.mozilla.org/~sstangl/esperanto-x-system-enabler.xpi

Source code to the extension is available by renaming the file from .xpi to .zip.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jepkatoj

How was this implemented? I'm guessing you didn't provide alternatives for every sentence, but that you somehow set it up so that whenever it sees cx anywhere that it's the same as ĉ (etc)? Either way, good news (although I won't use it) :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amuzulo

Yes, it makes this replacement automatically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/quirkyowl

Dankon! Mi ŝatas lerni esperanton!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlaisePetric

kaj mi sxatas lerni esperanton!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Krazy.Kat

Awesome! Great job!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kiddo-depido

Amazing!!! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LingvaPingcxjo

Awesome. It was hard switching between the two different keyboards on android. I had to use the google keyboards and they aren't as nice. On the PC though just created a keyboard layout that allows me to tap the ^ on the 6 key then hit the right letter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesBulls

This is great. For those of us who can't install an Esperanto-only keyboard, or who are stuck using International keyboards that require complex key sequences to produce diacritics, the x-method is the way to go.

Regarding the debate surrounding the x- and h-methods, I find that I prefer the x-method. Because the letter "x" doesn't exist in Esperanto, this makes it really fast and easy to identify letters that ought to have diacritics. When I read Esperanto written with the h-method, I find that it slows my reading and confuses my comprehension of the message because I second guess if that added "h" is a letter or a diacritic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fajro

Eble estus bona ideo mencii ankaŭ la kromprogrameton de Firefox (abcTajpu)por uzi la X-sistemon en aliaj retejoj.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kingthatcher

Por mi, mi ne povas elsxuti tajpi'on (kun cxiuj aliaj homoj en mia lernejo), cxar nun estas mi en lernejo kaj mia lernejo ne permesas nin elsxuti gxin (mi ne scias kial)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/darth10ter

Thank you so much! I can't wait to try it out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/difbobatl

Does the h-system work? I've tried it a couple of times and gotten flagged for a typo...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Junesun

No, unfortunately the H system is too inconsistent to be allowed in the same way, because H is also a valid letter in Esperanto. Please use X or real characters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandro_4

Please make also the h-system being accepted. Then Duolingo will be the king ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

Such features are not in the hands of the contributors but of Duo staff. And I guess they have much higher priorities (maybe within Esperanto course and surely with other courses, all platform, etc...) especially given that they already offer 3 ways to write (clicking on the special characters, typing w/o diacritics --- marked as typo but accepted --- and X-system). Thus, I fear the H-system --- which is more complicated to implement since the letter h does exist in Esperanto, the X-system was quite simple with the existing things in the system --- will not be implemented soon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/difbobatl

The H-system is perfectly consistent. I believe you meant to say that it is hard to implement, since H is a valid letter. But if we are teaching Esperanto, THAT is Esperanto, not "x". It does seem as though the system accepts it - but as a typo. Real thought should be given about accepting fundamenta Esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aleksescomu

-The best system is always ĉĝĵ...

-The x system is better for computers (compare: kacharo [=kac-haro] would be kaĉaro with the h system [aro de kaĉoj], but not with the x one)

-the h system is better for showing the language to the public that did not learn Esperanto (best: ŝi naĝas. Good alternative: Shi naghas. Worse: sxi nagxas... Klingon! Uuh! I don't like Esperanto).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vikungen

Kacharo... what a horrible word to use as an example hahaha.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aleksescomu

Yes, i know haha. It's the only one i remember when someone showed me the problems with the h system


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

It probably accepts it because "t{X}at" where you replace {X} by another letter or nothing isn"t in the list of lexemes taught in the course (maybe because none of the possible combinations is an Esperanto word, don't know ;)). If it wasn't like this, it would probably count it as wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tom_4_3i

Just for information: Here the specification of the h-system in the basic rules: http://akademio-de-esperanto.org/fundamento/gramatiko_angla.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Having seen the "language rules" applied to allow the X system to work, it would, so far as I can see, be much more difficult to make the H system work on Duolingo, because the way the X system is supported relies on the fact X isn't a letter of its own in Esperanto, and so there can be no confusion between a letter combination CX that is replacing a diacritical letter and a CX which is an acceptable letter combination that doesn't require a diacritic, because the latter does not exist.

The problem with the H system, is that CH (and other letter combinations) can exist both as a replacement for a diacritic AND as a legitimate letter combination in its own right. To differentiate between the two is not that difficult for a human. It's considerably more difficult for a computer.

The H system is not "an easy way out of the dilemma", because teaching a computer to reliably recognise it and not to mess up is more difficult than doing so for the X system.

You can choose not to believe this of course, choose to believe that the H system is "unwanted" or the team are "unwilling to make it happen", but that doesn't make you correct, and saying things like that is unfair towards the people who have put considerable effort into making this course, not to mention the fact that currently there are three ways of inputting Esperanto into the system (diacritics, which I can't currently do on this laptop, the CX, and the fairly forgiving typo option). Really, complaining about this is just taking people's time away from worthwhile things like making the course better.

The reason people keep downvoting comments like this is because the entitlement and pettiness and pure unwillingness to understand the system, etc, is pretty gross. Implying that Duolingo (who are offering this course for free) or the EO team (who have put hours and hours and hours into this course on a voluntary basis) just aren't putting the effort in?? You deserve downvotes, frankly. Sheesh. Get over yourself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/difbobatl

But the answer is not converting c+h into ĉ, rather adding chesi as a correct answer for ĉesi (for example). This is exactly how they implemented the x-system. All the arguments about confusion are moot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tom_4_3i

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate the Duo/Eo team's effort. Just an idea (the Duo/Eo team is kindly asked to consider it):

a) In case of an input "u" where "ŭ" (or "ux") is expected as correct, and b) in case of an input "ch"/"gh"/"hh/"jh"/"sh" where "ĉ"/"ĝ"/"ĥ"/"ĵ"/"ŝ" (or "cx"/"gx"/"hx/"jx"/"sx") is expected as correct, then the output will no longer be: "... typo ..." but: "... possible typo ...", and the input will anyway be assessed as correct.

I do not know whether this can be implemented easily. If yes, it would be a real improvement of the course, wouldn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

The team have already elaborated on how hard they had to badger Duolingo to get the X system, which is relatively easy to implement, sorted.

At present, they're trying to make the course as good as it can be, fix errors, add translations. Actual necessary things, not cosmetic playing around.

They've already stated they have no plans to implement the H system, because it would be too difficult to do so well, and yet you're still saying "but could you implement the system?" How many times do you need telling "No"?? Asked, answered. What part of "no" don't you understand?

There are in fact FOUR systems of input which are currently accepted as correct or which will go through with a mere typo warning and won't slow you down. FOUR. Even if you forget the X or a diacritic, you still only get a typo warning!

And you're still hanging around going "But it tells me I have a typo!"

Did it occur to you that attempting to add another system would almost certainly mean more typos wouldn't get corrected? That people would be learning wrongly just so you could use Hs?? Even though, in fact, you can already use Hs??! Even as it stands, the system is pretty gentle with typos. Making it even easier to make mistakes = not a good thing.

So, um, no, I don't think it's actually an improvement unless it can be done properly, and at the moment it can't. So... nope. Don't agree, for reasons that have been explained and elucidated and re-explained until several individuals are blue in the face.

The X system has been implemented, it works, it's easy to understand, and the diacritics have a simple, logical, 1-1 relationship to the X combinations, so it's easy to translate to diacritics in both type and "real world" writing. It works. The computer understands it. The people understand it. Win-win.

And even if you insist on using the H system, guess what, you still won't be marked wrong: all you'll be told is that you have a typo.

Sheesh. I have had it with you. You are being given a free gift and whining because it's not exactly to your own specifications, even though people have repeatedly and patiently explained that no, the H system won't be added, and have even explained why, and why the X system is better in this regard. Heck, even the Esperanto Academy manages to accept that there are times when the X system is most appropriate, but apparently you know better. Give me strength.

Frankly, I got zero time for anyone who's so unbelievably ungrateful and thick headed, and still apparently thinks DL/the EO team just can't be bothered even after the difficulties have been explained over and over and over.

Welcome to my ignore list.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Sandro: Please read the thread. Jeez. These questions have been asked and answered SO MANY TIMES.

They HAVE spoken for themselves. MANY TIMES. They've been ignored over and over, despite the fact they have made their position very clear.

The team have explained their position and that even implementing the X system was after long badgering of Duolingo.

Tom, and others, have been told many, many times the how and why of this decision. They keep asking the same question, over and over, even when they've been repeatedly told no, and had it explained why. You know why I called him ungrateful and thickheaded? Because that's how he's acting. In fact, that's how several "but we want the H system and we won't listen to any argument explaining why it's not possible" people have *consistently" acted. Not all of 'em. I have had good conversations with a couple. Too many of 'em, though.

Welcome to my ignore list alongside Tom. I'm not even going to bother any more, people who ignore the multitude of answers and explanations why the H system isn't going to be implemented any time soon and simply whine about it are henceforth going to get a one way ticket to my ignore list. If you can't understand no when it's been said a dozen times already, I'm not going to attempt to make your hear it the thirteenth time.

Luckily for me, I'm not on the team, so I can reasonably ignore you. Thank goodness!

(ETA: did you even read that link yourself? it specifically said that the ujo ending had now been added. Good grief. headdesk "Chuck jam korektis la eraron. Duolingo nun akceptas -ujon kaj -ion.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandro_4

1) Why do you (flootzavut) reply in lieu of a representative of the Duo-Eo team? Can they not speak for themselves?

2) Duo/Eo is still in beta phase. Therefore ideas for improvement should be welcome, and a team decision once made should not necessarily remain unchangeable.

But you (flootzavut) react to to Tom_4_3i with "Welcome to my ignore list" and even insults ("ungrateful and thick headed").

This risks to detract people from proposing improvement on other issues, e. g. why the correct word "Germanujo" is assessed as not correct: https://twitter.com/frenezulino/status/604042425900863488


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/junelac

you're free to develop your own duolingo if it bother you so much.... The x-system is just here to help people to type, without having to use special tools or keyboard layouts.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/difbobatl

Yes, but the h-system should also be supported is what I'm saying.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

As several people have pointed out, the H system presents problems the X system doesn't on Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.Knight

Dankon! DANKON! Kiam mi ne havas mian MacBook, mi ne sxatas la butonojn sur la Duo-pagxoj, kiam mi devas levi miajn fingrojn, kiu haltas min. Dankon dankon dankon!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Derdiedas812

Would be possible to have š and č being recognized as ĉ and ŝ, respectively? I find it funny that I have on my keyboard two letters in the Czech alphabet (and all the alphabet derived from it, afaik) that sound exactly as the two sounds Zamenhof decided to use, look nearly the same, yet they are not recognized by duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Foudeb

That's really cool, dankon!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trainpilot

Brill. Good work Esperanto team.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/difbobatl

Actually the h-system does work too! At least 95% of the time. ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

Does it consider the answers correct or does it consider them wrong but with a minor error (a typo)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tom_4_3i

Not as "correct" but as "almost correct, you have a typo" :-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

Ok, so it's more "wrong (but minor error so we [=Duo] is lenient and let you ass with it". ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/difbobatl

Though in actuality it is MORE correct than with the -x.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandro_4

Well, we have to accept: After Vikipedio and lernu.net, it's now Duo where the Esperanto computer guys are raising a next generation of x-ers :-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sinkopo

@Junesun, @amuzulo kaj aliaj instigantoj de tiu ĉi esperanto-rubriko en duolingvo: ĉu eblas atentigi la responsulojn de la retejo uzi alian tiparon kiu entenus la ĉapelajn simbolojn elskatole?

Mi vidas ke ili aspektas malbele sine de la ceteraj literoj. Tio ŝuldiĝas al la fakto ke la tiparo uzata de la retejo ne entenas ilin, do la retumilo anstataŭas ilin ĉerpante ilin el defaŭlta sistema tiparo. Tial la aspekto inter la ĉapelitaj literoj kaj la ceteraj literoj ne kongruas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NebelLeben

Aaw, so happy now :) It was always taking a lot of tipe to stop writing, taking the computer mouse and clicking on a letter. Thank you!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redyoshi49q

On my end, input using the X-system works both in a web browser and on a web connected Apple device, but the X-system doesn't seem to be recognized by an offline Apple device.

See https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5717/22145358585_282c620b31_b.jpg for a (cruddy but hopefully legible) screenshot. It shows that "Li aux sxi laboras" is not recognized as a valid translation of "He or she works.", even though the inputted text is the X-system text that directly corresponds to the provided canonical translation. Again, this doesn't happen if there is web connectivity; this only happens when the Apple device is offline.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiuseppeCl906035

When the first letter of the expected answer is the uppercase of ĉ, ĝ, ĥ, ĵ or ŝ, and one uses the corresponding x-version, the answer is flagged as incorrect. For example, "Sxtrumpoj ne havas butonojn" is flagged as incorrect when the expected answer is "Ŝtrumpoj ne havas butonojn".

P.S. I know that this post is 5 years old, but I felt it was more appropriate to write here instead of opening a new post.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Swingball

That's good and all but I'd like to see the H-system implemented as well. It looks prettier than the X-system.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Svedalaren

Why don't people just use the extension for crome? It change c+x to ĉ. Looks much better. The extension is in the "Esperanto Keyboard" thread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amuzulo

Because they might not be using Chrome? :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vinofreddo

And to add to what amuzulo said, they might not have the possibility of switching to Chrome either - it's not really fair to say "guys, if you're having trouble typing the special characters just install this Chrome extension, no need for Duolingo to fix the input system" when many people don't have that option. So I'm glad that the Esperanto team and the Duolingo developers didn't go that route :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/quirkyowl

Agreed. I've been using the chrome extension, but I'm now going to use the x system because if I forget to switch it off and then start typing in French I end up with errors. It's nice to have the option if you happen to have Chrome, but the x system is much more practical because it can be used across all devices, and I'm glad they've added it because it's widely accepted anyway. I'm sure it will be much easier for me to use the x system when it appears on the iphone app too (even though there's an eo keyboard, it is just easier to put and x).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Svedalaren

I never said that. I just said that if you are not locked to an apple computer you could use Crome and get the good looking letters insteed of using the x-system. Of course it is better to have as many systems working as possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

if you are not locked to an apple computer you could use Crome

Having it in Chrome under Mac OS isn't possible?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Svedalaren

I just asumed that they ment Apple when they said "not able to use crome". What other operation system can't use crome?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vinofreddo

Personally, I'm on a Microsoft tablet that runs Windows RT, which only allows me Internet Eplorer (which isn't generally that bad, but lacks the add-on potential of Chrome and Firefox).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Personally, I just don't like Chrome. Installed it once on a computer and had no end of trouble till I eventually gave up and deleted it.

I'm pretty sure I can get it for my iPad, but even if I can, add-one aren't (in my experience) typically available for mobile browsers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeelanRosa

OS isn't the only issue, there's also cases where people don't own/have install privileges for the computer themselves and are thus limited in what they can install (library computers, school computers, kids/teens who have limited use of the family computer, etc.). Chrome might be a benign and useful program but whether it's actually allowed or not can vary wildly depending on the policy of the people who do have install privileges for the computers, and even if Chrome itself is allowed installing extensions might not be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrikhal

I don't know if any but I use myself Chrome on Mac OS and Windows, so it's working with mac apparently.
Except if crome is something else than chrome.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/beforez

I want to be able to use Esperanto in other applications too, like e-mail or chat or on my phone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

I use EoKlavaro on my iPad, which is much better than attempting to use the English keyboard (where it keeps autocorrecting to English, aka wrong, words), but it would be great to have actual native keyboards.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tom_4_3i

You may use the h-system, which is a correct spelling from Esperanto's fundamentals on: ĉ = ch, ĝ = gh, ĥ = hh, ĵ = jh, ŝ = sh, ŭ = u (without h; no issue because anyway ŭ is behind "a" and "e" only: aŭ = au, and eŭ = eu). In case of "flughaveno", use "flug-haveno". This will even make it easier to analyse the individual roots. I hope that the h-system will be accepted in Duolingo, too. This would be great.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grey236

Why doesn't Esperanto just use the umlaut ˇ, you could have č,š,ǔ, the others I don't know about


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CraigHilde

Because when the language was designed, they wanted it to be instantly recognizable as Esperanto. Other languages didn't use ŝ ĝ but the Circumflex symbol was available, and on a typewriter it is easy to go back a space and put the symbol over the letter.

Learn Esperanto in just 5 minutes a day. For free.