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  5. "After the accident, his neck…

"After the accident, his neck hurt."

Translation:Post la akcidento, la kolo doloris lin.

June 4, 2015

19 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseballoon

If "la kolo doloris lin" and "lia kolo doloris" does that mean that dolori can be either transitive or intransitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vikungen

Dolori = (intransitive) to be hurting; to be sore

Dolorigi = (“to hurt (someone else)”)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChadScherr

Vortaro on Lernu.net says dolori is transitive, "to hurt, to cause pain".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cheeseballoon

That's what I suspected. Does that mean the alternate answer, "la kolo doloris lin," is incorrect? Should it be "la kolo dolorigis lin"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephieRice

As Chad mentioned, dolori is in fact transitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vikungen

Indeed, if that is the case, then there is a mistake in the alternate answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichDuke

In this lesson there was the English sentence and then Esperanto words to move around to make the sentence. There was no tile that had "lin" on it so I had to construct "Post la akcidento, la kolo dororis" without the "lin" and it accepted the sentence as correct. I think this is an error because "doloris" is transitive but I don't see any way to report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fantomius

This one is tricky. Does the neck hurt someone (transitive) or is it in a state of hurt (intransitive)?

Different languages have different answers to this question, and Esperanto tries to accommodate several of them. That's why the correct answers don't seem to be consistent with one other.

I figure you should just use "doloras" whether you use it with an object or not (as in "Mia dorso doloras" or "La dorso doloras min"), and you should be fine.

(The use of "doloras" is one statement where listeners should be flexible and you shouldn't have to be lectured about proper grammar.) :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fantomius

A quick addition:

I've verified that dolori is technically transitive in Esperanto. Thus, when something is hurting, it means that it is hurting something.

Whether a dog is hurting me, or my shoes are hurting me, or my arm is hurting me, each of the subjects are doing the hurting, and in all those examples I am the object that's being hurt.

However, that last example ("My arm is hurting me") can be shortened to "My arm is hurting" (and even "My arm hurts") in both English in Esperanto. In both languages (and I'm sure in many other languages), when a body part is hurting and no direct object is supplied, it is assumed that the body part's owner is the object being hurt.

Therefore, "Mia brako doloras" ("My arm hurts" or "My arm is hurting") is likely short for "Mia brako doloras min" ("My arm is hurting me").

Normally we don't leave off direct objects with just any verb, but "dolori" used with body parts is different, as it's generally understood that the body part's owner is the direct object.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SheilaLind3

Why "post" and not "sekve" for following, like some other Duolingo examples?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kodanto

Post means after (as in time) sekve means following (as in cause and effect). There is a more clear line between them in esperanto than there is in English. In English you could say that there will be a lunch following class or there will be a lunch after class and mean the same thing. In Esperanto, the first sentence would assume that class caused lunch up happen. The sentence here is a little more muddy in the difference since the accident caused the pain but they were trying to convey time and not causation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pedantic_git

I wrote "lia kolo doloris sin" and was marked wrong and told it should be "lia kolo doloris lin". Is that correct? I thought you'd only use "lia ... lin" if there were two different people involved.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mingan8

In the first clause the subject is him, but in the second the subject is his neck. The neck causes pain to him (lin), not to itself (sin). The use of reflexive pronouns isn't limited by number of people (or any nouns for that matter) but by whether the subject of a clause is the same as the object (and it's in the third person). If it is, then you use it.

I see you speak Italian and from some quick googling it looks like Italian has this feature as well. IT might be useful to compare those two.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pedantic_git

Ah, of course! This makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for the explanation!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KaylenePet

I don't understand why the accusative isn't used for lin


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kodanto

Just in case the two comments get separated. The above content was intended to say kolo instead of lin.

The reason why is because kolo is the subject. It is the thing that is doing the action (hurting). The object (the thing being hurt) is him (lin).

The pattern of saying "the body part hurts me" is a common way to express that a body part hurts in several languages but it seems awkward to english speakers.

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