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https://www.duolingo.com/svgm

These fluency percentages are ridiculous

svgm
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I have no idea why duolingo would want to add fluency percentages. Clearly the calculations make no sense since it rates my portugese fluency (which i just started) much higher than my german fluency (at which I also am at a much higher level). It doesn't tell you anything. And the badge showing the fluency percentage takes the place of the level...which I would like to see... Can this please be reversed?!

3 years ago

46 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Whea

I would like to add that after an intensive hour of updating my fluency dropped 2%. How encouraging is that?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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I don't think any user could address your complaint. Better to write to Duo but I doubt they'll reverse a change they tested and that pass their statistical test.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FaRiha4
FaRiha4
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The same thing happened to me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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I have no idea why duolingo would want to add fluency percentages. Clearly the calculations make no sense since it rates my portugese fluency (which i just started) much higher than my german fluency (at which I also am at a much higher level). It doesn't tell you anything.

See here for official statement (made when they launched the A/B test)

And the badge showing the fluency percentage takes the place of the level...which I would like to see... Can this please be reversed?!

Apparently the A/B test(*) just finished and was positive (for the fluency badge to be kept). Thus, no, it's not likely to be reversed since they just pushed it live for everyone after statistically checking that it had a positive influence on users' learning experience in average.

(*) I didn't had it during the A/B test and now does; you seem to be in the same case

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Karpathian
Karpathian
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I think it would be much better to have a tree completion statistic -a reflection of the progress of the path towards the golden tree. When your tree decays you see it drop, when your tree is golden it is at 100%.

This way it's much clearer in my view. Also so as not to demotivate people it only unlocks when you have finished your tree or via an opt-in setting . As it stands I ignore it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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I think it would be much better to have a tree completion statistic -a reflection of the progress of the path towards the golden tree. When your tree decays you see it drop, when your tree is golden it is at 100%.

Why not but it would be only a number indicating something that you can already evaluate by yourself (as an approximative idea with a glimpse on your tree or by making the stat yourself(*)). It would make it easier but wouldn't had more info.

The fluency is supposed to take into account more things from what I've understand about it.
N.B.: Not saying it's working perfectly/well right now. ;)

(*) or see here, several userscripts doing similar things.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HyacinthFT
HyacinthFT
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I took a month or two off from DL and I come back to find that my French fluency is 48% but my Spanish is 52%. I don't expect it to reflect reality (I'm learning Spanish but I am fluent in French and have lived in Paris for years), but could it at least reflect what I've done in DL? I finished the French tree and am about halfway through the Spanish tree. I refreshed 2 lessons in Spanish just now and my fluency dropped to 49%.

This doesn't make any sense at all and I would rather have the fluency rating hidden or dropped below other windows on the right.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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It seems a little less reliable on neglected trees. I had a tree that was saying I was 17% fluent but it was very neglected. I strengthened all the skills (I'd only learnt 6 on that particular tree) and the numbers now make sense compared to the other trees that I have.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/aspielman2
aspielman2
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Mine are junk numbers. They rank my languages in an order that doesn't remotely correspond to my true fluency. And my Spanish is showing as 2%, even though my tree is almost complete (5 or 6 skills to go), having been done through (a) the placement test and (b) testing out of subsequent skills (with low error rate as I haven't had to repeat a test)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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I suspect that it only rates you on the actual words that you have used in Duo, so if you have effectively bypassed a lot of the tree by placement / testing out then it can only count the words you have used in those tests. The more you use Duo, I'm sure that that % will go up!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/aspielman
aspielman
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That is an interesting hypothesis, but doesn't fit with my experience. I completed the French, German and Italian trees in the same way and tested out at higher levels in all three: on your logic I would expect to see lower fluency levels than for Spanish but in fact all three are showing in the 30-37% range.

Also the percentages seem even more random in my old account aspielman where I did all the trees from scratch first time round, with loads of practice.

And completing the Spanish tree today hasn't shifted that 2%!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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Are you on the internet Duo or on an App? It might be worth looking at the relative word lists, comparing the number of words it tells you that you know for each language might help, and ... depending on how much you want to investigate it, if you click on the word "strength" at the top it will order the words with the weakest at the top. If you scroll down to the point where it changes to full strength words & compare where the scroll button is in the right hand margin, that will give you an idea of the proportion of your words that are full strength.

I would be interested to hear if you want to share the info!

I was working with the old system when it came up with my percentages and found that as I strengthened more of my words, my fluency percentage went up significantly!

2% does seem very low though, even on my English from Spanish tree (on a different account) I'm on 20% & I haven't done very much on that yet - perhaps there are still some glitches in the system!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Margolf

I can't even figure out what calculation they are doing....... my Spanish number has not changed in months........ I JUST started the French tree-- when it showed me with 64 words.....the fluency number was 14% - ......today, the words are 82....and the fluency number is 13%......... neither of those numbers make any sense-- but what arithmetic are they doing if the number goes down the more words it says you know?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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my Spanish number has not changed in months.......

If you reached the maximum percentage that current SP for EN speakers course can bring you too (and keep strengthenning a little), it's quite normal.
Duo wouldn't pretend to brings you over a certain percentage (~55-70%, depending on the course).

I JUST started the French tree-- when it showed me with 64 words.....the fluency number was 14% - ......today, the words are 82....and the fluency number is 13%.........
[...]
but what arithmetic are they doing if the number goes down the more words it says you know?

When learning first a word/concept, you'll forgot it quicker and with more probability in average than if it's the 10th time over 3months you see it.
Thus, if you just (few days) started then it's not surprising that it can be that the estimation/anticipation of "do you still really know the word" has gone to "probably no" for more than 18 (=82-64) words among the 64 first words learned, ending to an negative balance thus losing 1%.


Not saying at all this fluency percentage is good/well done or anything, just that those two "examples" or quite logical.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mark2020
Mark2020
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I've finished my Italian tree, it is nearly golden and i'm 3% fluency. I am probably a third of my way through German tree and my fluency is 7%.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mark2020
Mark2020
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My German fluency level had been sat on 7% since being introduced as I am not very far down the tree and haven't done any practice for a long time. Yesterday I started to do some practice, starting at the top in order to re-gold it and that has made my fluency go down to 6%. It seems that the more I do, at least for Italian and German, the lower the score goes.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/svgm
svgm
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yes, the whole thing is a fluke!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mark2020
Mark2020
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I've been working hard, just done 160xp in the last 2 hours or so and my Italian fluency has dropped to 2%.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mark2020
Mark2020
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I've just fully made my Italian tree gold and my fluency badge is 2%. I think it may just be a glitch.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/cdhicks1
cdhicks1
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Hmm.How can my fluency be 58% at level 23 and perfect 5/5 score on the overall exam?

Don't like it. No me gusta!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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Maybe because you're tested only on things contained in Duo's tree and this doesn't bring you to fluency (i.e. 100%) and this metric take it into account, see official statement.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BobPage1

I don't mind having the unreliable data bit. But it is too prominently displayed on the web page. Something a quarter of the size and out of the way of that all important strengthen skills button.

Speaking of clutter I hope the banner for the android and Ipod etc, shrinks and/or disappears soon.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Plyze

I believe it's an A/B test which is not changeable. The fluency shield is strictly based off the tree itself.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HappyEvilSlosh
HappyEvilSlosh
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I think it's a good idea to having a value that's directly tied to the tree. I'm quite a lot less sold on advertising it as "fluency".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HyacinthFT
HyacinthFT
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Indeed. Maybe "mastery" or "skill" or "knowledge" are more what they're going after.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GregTrotter

I can see why they would want to do it. It's just been implemented horribly.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tbrzl565
tbrzl565
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It would be convenient to have the option to hide the percentage from view. That way, if someone really wants to see it, they can make it visible.

Personally, I would hide it from my view. I can see the value in it for many learners, but I approach my learning of foreign languages as a life-long endeavor. My reward is in the discovery of cultural nuances, seeing the world through different viewpoints, and making connections with new people. On that kind of time scale, the percentage of fluency is a meaningless number for me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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It would be convenient to have the option to hide the percentage from view. That way, if someone really wants to see it, they can make it visible.

-> here.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tbrzl565
tbrzl565
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I will have to try that out! Gracias!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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There's quite an interesting article here on re-gilding Duo trees: http://gregreflects.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/how-to-make-gold-duolingo-tree.html For some of you with low percentages, this might help you bump up your percentages more quickly! Good luck!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mark2020
Mark2020
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Thanks. I've just read it all.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/pugspie101

IKR it says am 14% lol

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/fuzzbucketdeux

mmm. I feel my 52% Spanish fluency is pretty accurate. Sure, I can read and write Spanish, understand most subtitles, but I am NOT able to just sit down and watch a Spanish show or listen to Spanish music without subtitles, haha. I hope I get there within the next year

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SusanR7

Couldn't agree more

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GinnyWeasly123

Mine did not take the place of my level

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mikemcdonald58
mikemcdonald58
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Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PalomaP87
PalomaP87
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I guess you have disabled microphone and/or speaker... In my case I disabled sound settings when I was "learning" spanish from english, because I'm a native spanish speaker and I'm more concerned with translation from spanish to english... My fluency in spanish increased but in low rate than other languages I'm learning, even when I'm finishing the spanish at higher speed.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PalomaP87
PalomaP87
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*the spanish tree at higher speed.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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It is difficult to understand these percentages - but I would say, that my youngest son was working his way up the old levels system without really progressing beyond the first few skills, something that I found a bit frustrating as he was being "rewarded" for not making much progress. Perhaps the new system will give him more of an incentive to actually make progress with Duo?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/svgm
svgm
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it will be exactly the same because the fluency is based on the tree. if he takes only the firts few lessons but keeps them golden, his fluency will be excellent.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TracyS221
TracyS221
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Not sure about this, having investigated the 11 trees that my family are doing at the moment, a few quite seriously and some very neglected, all (but one) of the percentages make sense based on the number of words we know that are maintained at full strength apparently as a percentage of a benchmark number of words that someone has worked out to represent fluency in the language. One seemed to have glitched, taking no account of the number of words that were very weak but having strengthened that tree, the percentage fluency has not increased and all the numbers now make sense. The only trees that are on very low percentages (<5%) are those that have no gold skills and almost all the words are very weak.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Paraphrasing

It's annoying, I know I'm still a level 6 in Spanish but I am Spanish, and I only have 17%, I think Duolingo should be more progressed, especially in seeing how good the person really is (eg. seeing if they get them all correct), sorry if you disagree with me though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sumake99
sumake99
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I don't think the algorithm is well thought over. I don't think it takes into account level of complexity, familiarity with the lesson's subject, etc

Here is what I noticed - if I start doing a lot of "practicing", especially if I start at the top of the tree where it's very simple, my fluency jumps up in no time. I got +2% in no time.

Then I do couple of new lessons, more complicated with unknown words and structures - fluency goes down.

Seems counter-intuitive - learning new skills cannot bring down your fluency.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/greatlanguages
greatlanguages
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I agree. I have "completed" the French tree multiple times and only have 2 lessons that have faded in strength vs. I am only about 1/3 of the way through the Spanish tree yet it is showing me 63% fluent in French and 52% in Spanish. The Spanish % is WAY too high and the French % may be accurate but I do 5 lessons in a row and the % doesn't budge...I feel MUCH more fluent in French than Spanish.

3 years ago