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https://www.duolingo.com/dlloyd212

Pluperfect misunderstanding

There appears to be a bit of a weird translation going on in the French topic 'Pluperfect'. For example:

Et ma mere avait accepté -> And my mom had accepted

Can be seen as odd or incorrect by some English speakers because the word 'had' is rarely used to denote a past participle. The correct translation should therefore be: And my mom has accepted. Because 'accepted' indicates we're in the past-tense there's no need for there to be a 'had' in the sentence no more.

Although either translation is fine, the former is confusing because it is mixing past perfect and the simple past tense together. At any rate, the use of 'had' in the context foresaid makes the sentence irregular because it's using the past tense twice implying that the sentence isn't in the past tense at all.

EDIT: I'd also like to remind people that 'had gotten' is almost obsolete now in English. The word 'got' replaces it. E.g. I got you a present over I had gotten you a present.

What are your thoughts?

Has vs Had.

il y a 3 ans

11 commentaires


https://www.duolingo.com/jrikhal
jrikhal
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because the word 'had' is rarely used to denote a past participle.

Here, had (like has in your example) is not a past participle of the verb to have, but the auxiliary to have which is used to form compound tenses

The correct translation should therefore be: And my mom has accepted. Because 'accepted' indicates we're in the past-tense there's no need for there to be a 'had' in the sentence no more.

They don't express the same thing.

  • Et ma mère avait accepté -> And my mom had accepted
  • Et ma mère a accepté -> And my mom has accepted

In And my mom has accepted, the reference is now. It describes an action that occurred before now.
In And my mom had accepted, the reference is something in the past. It describes an action that occurred before this past reference.

For example:
Et ma mère avait accepté [quand je suis arrivé pour la conseiller] >-> And my mom had accepted [when I arrived to advised her]
The reference is the moment (in the past) where I arrived. And my mom had accepted before that moment.

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
Sitesurf
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Pouvez-vous retraduire votre réponse pour les non-bilingues ?

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/Elizabeth261736

Il est possible d'avoir des petites problèmes avec la grammaire en anglais, même si on soit anglaise.

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/StephenRawr
StephenRawr
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What you are referring to is called the present perfect, "has accepted." This is used to specify a present state as a result of past action.

Pluperfect, as I understand it, is used to express a past state as a result of past action. In English, we use the past perfect for this, which would be "had accepted."

For example, if your mother was accepting an invitation to some event, you would use "has accepted" if she accepted the invitation but the event hasn't happened yet. The present state is that she has accepted.

If the event already happened, then you would use past perfect, "had accepted." The acceptance indicates a past state, as she is no longer currently accepting the invitation (because the event is over).

Does this make sense?

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/dlloyd212

It does make sense, but we don't usually use the word 'had' in the latter example; we just say 'She accepted the invitation', rather than 'She had accepted the invitation'.

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/annika_a
annika_a
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You can see the difference between the different tenses if you combine them in one sentence: I asked my mom to come to the concert, but she had already accepted the invitation to the other event. See how you need the "further back in time" sense that the pluperfect gives you?

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
Sitesurf
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En français, s'il vous plaît.

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/StephenRawr
StephenRawr
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In my experience, simple past is usually preferred over both examples. It refers only to an action that happened in the past and is not specific as to the current state of things.

"She accepted the invitation." could mean either "has accepted" or "had accepted" as it doesn't specify, but the latter two have different meanings.

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
Sitesurf
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Êtes-vous au courant que la langue de travail ici est le français ?

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/Ronnie-JA

Je pense que nous n'avons pas realisé.

il y a 3 ans

https://www.duolingo.com/Elizabeth261736

C'est incroyable! Vous devez avoir beaucoup de patience.

il y a 3 ans