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  5. "Io mangio sia verdura che ca…

"Io mangio sia verdura che carne."

Translation:I eat both vegetables and meat.

December 27, 2012



I really don't understand the use of 'che' in this sentence, why isn't it 'e'?

I read this sentence as "I eat both vegetables that meat"


maybe you understand it better if you see it this way: "I eat whether it's meat or vegetables". Sia, from the verb "to be", it's used to generate this conditional structure. The program won't admit my answer though, so don't try it, but it meas the same.


It seems to be similar to "I eat, be it vegetable or meat." That would also explain why verdura is singular.


Correct but in that case it should accept 'vegetable' since it's singular 'verdura'. It is not.


But isn't verdura always singular?


Yes verdura is always singular and can mean both vegetable (sing) and vegetables (pl)


Verdura can be plural (verdure) when you're talking about types of vegetables.


Is it the same meaning as sia.. sia ?


But there was also another form. What's the difference between this and sia ... sia?


I don't know if you kniw Spanish but can it be something also like: yo como ya sea vegetales o carne"


This makes more sense to me than the Italian.


Also the same in Portuguese: eu como seja vegetal/verdura ou/seja carne


Eu tinha pensado em "tanto...quanto", mas gostei do seu exemplo.

[deactivated user]


    Thanks for your comment, it makes sense said like that!


    Thank you for explanation but what about "che". Why is it not "o" or "oppure" but "che"?


    It's a part of how the construction works. It's like the "neither...nor/or" construction in english. It's always "sia...che/sia."


    Is there a rule governing whether che or sia is used on the second spot?


    Why not ..either... or

    • 2466

    You can say
    I do not eat either chicken or fish.
    I eat neither chicken nor fish.

    You negate either the verb or the predicate, but not both.


    I thought sia meant "both". So i am also confused on how it works as saying "meat or vegetables"?


    It wouldn't.

    To say "both" using "sia" in Italian, we use the following construction: "sia + (object) + sia/che + (object)."

    For "or", we could use "o," "oppure," or the "ne' + (object) + ne' + (object)" construction (that last one is more like "neither + (object) + nor (object)"). There are probably more, those are just the ones off the top of my head.


    Sia... che.. Like the nè.. nè.


    "sia ... che" hasn't been taught though "sia ... sia" and "che" have been. Duolingo, are we just supposed to be guessing now?


    No, you're supposed to be learning :) Sometimes they just throw new stuff at us, you get it wrong, you learn it, re-do the lesson and have learned a new word or idiom.


    I don't like how Duolingo expects us to know stuff we haven't learned in their previous sections of the program. I think this is a vital error in their thought and programming.


    I understand what you are saying. I guess we are all different in our learning styles but I tend to remember something better if I have been tripped up by it once. Some of DLs surprises have stuck better in my head


    Strange but true that we tend to remember our mistakes better than our successes!


    Maybe forget the hearts and lingots and focus on the learning instead. ;)


    I understand. Duolingo does have it's own way of reinforcing the learning. For some of us (in medicine) mistakes are not as well tolerated though ("oh, my patient died but I sure learned a lot!"). I'll have to make sure that I adjust my attitude before approaching Duo!


    We don't know every word in the English language. But when we hear a new one, we attempt to figure out the meaning via the context. Then we think about and, hopefully, remember it. It makes learning more challenging and, therefore, more interesting.


    Although I'm just learning Italian and I, too, was confused by the introduction of "sia... che", I am also a graduate student in Applied Linguistics... which is a fancy way to say "Second Language Acquisition (SLA) epistemology and theory." I say this only to introduce the scholarly perspective that involves immersing students with unknown content as a method of language instruction. This method is highly regarded in the academic community and it's commonly referred to as the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD). It seems this peer community is serving as the mentor in the ZPD instruction model and I'm grateful to those who contributed. I found several examples very helpful. Thanks.


    I was amused by the fact that "applied linguistics" is a fancy way to say "Second Language Acquisition (SLA) epistemology and theory" - I'd have thought it was vice versa ;)


    it's also how we learn our "first" language.


    How do you expect to learn something you don't already know, if you already know it first?


    It makes sense, but after you get through a certain bit of you you start to understand a structure. Plus they allow you to cheat by hovering over each new word. So they really are teaching it to you, immediately in context, instead of treating you like a baby and teaching you every single word separately like it's on a flashcard. They are trying to speed up the practical use/get you as fluent as fast as possible, so you can actually speak in person with a native Italian. You may not use "sia... che" in your every day conversational Italian, but they will make sure you know it in case you ever want to sound really grammatically perfect.


    Stefania, what is the rule then? I am not clear on this. Thanks.


    "Sia + (subject) + sia/che + (subject)..." = "Both + (subject) + and + (subject)..."


    That's grand - thanks. But what if it's a verb? I can dance or I can sing or I can both dance and sing? Just curious.



    My (subject) from above can also be a verb. It's whatever the person is talking about. For your example question, I think the Italian would be:

    "Sia ballare sia/che cantare posso."

    I put "posso" at the end as every instance I can recall of "sia...sia/che..." has it at the beginning of the sentence.


    Yes I agree with you..Duolingo is not a spoonfeeding programme!


    I agree 100%! I am progressing through all the lessons in order, and go through all the tips, and suddenly gave come across 5-6 words in a single lesson that I've never seen before and have no idea what they are or mean. That's not a good way to learn. It's frustrating, and I won't remember them all because there hasn't been enough repetition or use, and I don't know the conjugations.


    in what sense can an error be, as you say, "vital"?


    I absolutely agree. It is not good to learn without understanding.

    New words can be taught by simply putting it into new exercises. And as we make mistakes - we learn. But conjunctions now I'm finding hard to learn because for example first we learn that "o" means "or" and then some "oppure" pop out of nowhere... how is that different? Or it isn't at all? and more. Kinda discouraging.


    No. Questo è perchè la parola ha sottolinea.


    When will we use "sia..sia" and "sia..che"?


    That is my question. I'm not sure that I am really understanding the difference.


    Yes. In order to learn this, I need to understand the rule. Thanks.


    They are trying to speed up the practical use/get you as fluent as fast as possible, so you can actually speak in person with a native Italian. You may not use "sia... che" in your every day conversational Italian, but they will make sure you know it in case you ever want to sound really grammatically perfect.


    So, to be clear, are you saying that "sia...che" is generally considered more formal than "sia...sia"? If so, that's helpful to know.


    I think we use sia..che.. when you want to say both...and.... I got my answer right by putting both..and..the context will tell.


    So the word "che" is typically "that" but also frequently "what" and now it's also "and"? I understand that words rarely translate perfectly but this one is throwing me for a loop.


    Try and think of che by itself as that, and sia........che as a together expression. Dont try and logically understand it, just remember it


    It's both "be" and "both". It's "be" if we are conjugating "essere", and "both" in this situation. http://www.wordreference.com/iten/sia


    Thanks, it helped me figured it out that it like the spanish sea or portugues seja, taken from the verb ser (essere in italian) but used also as both


    Thank you for this web reference. very helpful.


    There was an earlier sentence in this same lesson (though I'm not sure that everyone sees the same sentences in the same order) which was something like: Io cucino sia verdura sia carne" (I don't remember if that was it exactly, but it was something like that. I'm not sure "sia" appeared twice, but it appeared at least once). I put "I cook vegetables and meat" and got marked wrong because I left out the articles - it should have been "I cook both the vegetables and the meat." People in the comments explained the need for the articles by suggesting that this was a current action (I am now cooking these veggies and this meat) not just a claim about what I do regularly, or can do. So for this new sentence I put "I eat both the vegetable and the meat" (that is, I included the articles) - and got marked wrong for including them. So what gives? Is it that 'sia....sia" indicates a current action, whereas "sia.....che" indicates a habit, or ongoing action? Is that because "sia" is in the subjunctive? Even if that's it, I don't understand why it would have been in the subjunctive in the first sentence - sia.....sia - given that sentence involved a current action - "I am (now) cooking both the vegetables and the meat". Help!


    I just learned about this and also don't understand. Right now I'm sort of going with what it gives me and hoping for the best (it doesn't always work.) Maybe you got wrong for saying the singular form of vegetable and meat instead of the plural form? Sorry if not helpful.


    Am I the only one noticing that "verdura" is translated as "vegetables" and not "vegetable"? And I know it's not normal, because in previous lessons Duolingo used "verdure".


    you're using both vegetable and meat in the singular. This is more appropriate: "Mangio sia la verdura sia la carne"


    Thanks for this. I got this wrong and couldn't understand why. It sort of makes sense now (I think!). Onward and upward!


    I noticed that too and I was marked wrong for writing it as 'vegetable'. Is there even a choice between using singular word when you mean plural and visa-verca. I think that's an error. I should simply be 'Verdura - vegetable' and 'Verdure - vegetables' ....why to complicate?


    To me in both languages it seems perfectly fine, as a native speaker would put it. In English the unspecific plural just is vegetables (the singular doesn't make any sense) and in Italian it is simply the singular. One should rather learn to translate the sense correctly than strictly literally.


    hmm...that is also right


    I had a hard time finding the sia...che form online, but i finally found this on wordreference.com:

    <pre>He's both tall and handsome. È sia alto che bello. </pre>

    I still don't understand the grammatical logic of it, but I don't care. I plan on using it and remembering it, perche è sia utile che divertente ;-)


    I see this sentence is still generating confusion. I blame this on DuoLIngo--which I otherwise love! I'm a student, so take my input with caution, but... When I first saw "sia verdura che carne" I thought for sure it was an error and I even commented on it. I was wrong. I was expecting a construction like ne...ne. Where does the "che" suddenly come from? Especially when sia...sia is also a valid construction. There are no grammatical explanations offered in the exercises, so we were all left hanging. Well, I read a lot more and I see sia...sia and sia...che constructions in articles. Researching it further I see that sia...sia is the older form and parallels other constructions like siano...siano or fosse...fosse. Sia...che is a more recent construction. Further, in long, compound sentences, where the things being compared are long phrases (not just a meat and a vegetable) containing one or more "that's" (in italiano che), the extra "che" of che...che can lead to confusion. We won't see this in DuoLingo (probably), so understanding both forms is useful.


    My Italian husband says that 'sia' is rarely used and if you do want to use 'sia' and 'che' you absolutely need the articles. Sia la verdura...che la carne.


    so when to use ( sia...sia ) and when (sia...che) ???


    I wrote "sia....che" a while ago in another sentence, and it insisted (having told me I was wrong) on "sia...sia" So what is the difference between "sia....che" and "sia....sia"? What's the rule?


    Isn't sia/che also either/or ? ie. I eat either vegetables or meat.


    I think sia means both. This sentence is all sorts of wrong.


    no, I put that and it was marked wrong - it's "both...and" - but how sia....sia and sia...che differ beats me at this point.


    Shouldn't this be correct too? "I eat vegetables as well as meat"


    I think so and that's how I said it and yet, if you do, you are marked wrong. I will report it and see if anything happens.


    I think it looks same but not really same, if you say" it is good" do you think that it is same as you say, " it is not bad "


    I can't understand anything please someone help me I'm so confused


    lol I have been there!


    I also found this explanation (see link below). It has something to do with the outcome/ context. Both.. and .. (sia ... sia ...) “Sia + sia” can also express “Whether (this), OR (that), the result is still the same.” Whether... or... (Sia + che)

    I eat/cook BOTH the veggies AND the meat or, WHETER I eat veggies OR meat, i like them both..

    Hope I interpreted the explanation right. Here's the link: http://icebergproject.co/italian/2015/11/how-to-use-sia-sia-in-italian-or-how-to-say-both-pasta-and-pizza-sound-good/

    "But I’ve heard “sia + che,” too. Is that wrong? Nope. Using the “sia + che” construction is right, too, but “sia + sia” is preferred because it lessens the chance that your next “che” could be confused as “that,” especially in lengthy sentences"


    Earlier we had " sia .. sia .." meaning " both .. and ..". Are they used in the same context? One of the links says "more colloquial" - is that the only difference? (And then why do we learn sia.. sia.. but not egli / essi?)


    This seems pretty nuanced to be introduced this early inthe learning process


    Would sia...sia be acceptable here or does it have to be sia...che?


    Please clarify the singular vegetable and meat. Will the nouns always be singular while using sia/che?


    It doesn't depend on the sia/che (which is however grammatically incorrect in Italian, even if much used). It's just that you used the singular "verdura" as an uncountable noun, when referring to "all the vegetables" in general. "Le verdure" refers to some particular vegetables.


    En español se traduciría como "tanto... como...", no? "Como tanto verduras como carne"....


    I would think that would translate as " I eat as many/much vegetables as meat"


    Sometimes the comments in Duolingo are essential for my understanding. Thank you!!!


    Yeah it's a bit annoying that Duo just expects you to know things sometimes, but we learn it and redo the lesson and move on. We as humans have such issues with being wrong. It's okay, to be wrong sometimes, no one thinks you're dumb, really. With that being said, we should all remember that this is a program that is teaching us a language for free, with no strings attached. This is a valuable resource which we should appreciate before we go complaining.


    che is not and...sentence is incorrect.


    Why here use [sia...che] And don't use [sia...sia] or [sia...e]


    Why does che mean so many things. Hard to keep up when one word can mean multiple things depending on the sentence :( ... perché? PERCHÉ!? lol


    So must one ALWAYS use both sia & che together. Like the letter 'u' always follows 'q'?


    The problem here is that in an earlier exercise with vegetables and meat, sia was used twice. Che was not used, in effect, 2 exercises with different outcome!! How can this be?


    Because there is more than one way to say things...even in English.


    Hover text says "be."


    Is it actually incorrect to say "Io mango sia verdura e carne"?


    Yes.. I can't figure out a good English equivalent. It's more like "I eat as much vegetable as meat". So "and" wouldn't make sense


    @Juliennelachance - are you a native Italian? It sounds to me like a better translation could also be "as much meat as vegetables", but I'm just learning.


    "Io mangio sia verdura che carne." Translation: "I eat both vegetables and meat." it's perfect.

    sia...che = sia...sia = both...and


    Thanks...of all comments this helps...along with another that says it's a fixed expression! Saying it that way in English helped me understand better knowing Portuguese as it compares well...eu como tanto (x amount) vegetais que carne. Expression together makes for "as much as" so I guess in Italian it's slightly different with using 'both' (sia)...

    Unless sia has more meanings and is actually same in this context then, but with duolingo giving the "both" and "and" in the answer only. :s

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    sia in this context may be translated "as well as"


    For me it helps thinking about "sia ... che" as "as well ... as", but I am not sure if it completely correct.


    Finalmente alguien que habla español... También deduje que es "tanto... como," pero no entiendo muy bien el porqué de "verduras" en plural!


    So 'I eat be it meat or vegetables' seems the most accurate english translation if 'sia' is a version of 'essere' - but then could you say 'mangio sia vedura o carne' - or would that be wrong?


    Is 'veggies' too colloquial?


    It's accepted in some of the answers, but not others.


    I always find it helps my Italian pronunciation if I use hand gestures. Go figure.


    I saw in a lesson that "sia verdure sia carne" is the correct way to say this. Both vegetables and meat. It's easier for me that way.


    May I make a suggestion to some of you who are having trouble with this construction. Just think of "sia...que" as Italian's idiomatic way of saying "both...and". It is a correlative conjunction.


    i'm so confused what's the difference between, e/ed, sia and che


    "sia~~che" is "both~~and". is it right? is there another possible Expression?


    Sia was translated as is,in this lesson it's translates as both


    It's helpful if you know french. This sentense would translate similarily, like: je mange autant de la verdure que de la viande". In ftench we would say a plural "des légumes" (vegetables) instead, but this works for a simple example. But i wanted ti show how "autant...que" is similar to what is used in italian and it can be translated in english as "I eat "as much" (autant) vegetables "as" (que) meat.


    Is saying 'sia... che' the same as saying 'sia... sia' I'm still confused even after reading the comments :-----(


    Yes. The construction is "sia + (subject) + sia/che + (subject)..." Whether we use "sia" or "che" in the second part is completely up to us. I've read that Italians will use whichever sounds better (like how we're supposed to choose between "tra" and "fra").


    Why in some cases "che" like in place of and but in some cases not? Like another sentence has sia la ragazza sia il ragazzo to mean both the girl and the boy.


    The construction is "sia + (subject) + sia/che + (subject)..." Whether we use "sia" or "che" in the second part is completely up to us. They are entirely interchangeable. I've read that Italians will use whichever sounds better (like how we're supposed to choose between "tra" and "fra"), though I'm not exactly sure how one sounds better over the other.


    So there are two constructions, sia... sia and sia... che and they both mean exactly the same thing?


    That is correct. Which one we choose for the second part is completely up to us. Italians choose whichever sounds better (kind of like with "tra" and "fra").


    What's the difference between "sia... che" and "sia... sia"? For example, is "Io mangio sia verdura sia carne" correct?


    Yes. The construction is "sia + (subject) + sia/che + (subject)..." Whether we use "sia" or "che" in the second part is completely up to us. I've read that Italians will use whichever sounds better (like how we're supposed to choose between "tra" and "fra").


    Here's what I understand from this sentence; think of this example:

    He's both tall and handsome. È sia alto che bello.

    It is actually like: He be(is) tall as he is handsome. So this actually means. He is a tall person as he is a handsome person. He has both the qualities equally.

    This is my first time with romance languages so this is just a hypothesis and an easier way to make sense of the sentence. Correct me if I'm wrong


    Why would it not be "sia verdura sia carne?..???


    "sia verdura sia carne" and "sia verdura che carne" are equivalent. Both are correct usage.


    When should you use sia sia vs. sia che?


    I a previous sentence the boy and the girl was sia/ sia. How do I know when to use that versus sia/che?


    It helps me to think of it like this: be that vegetables or be that meat.


    why is it not "io mangio sia verdura sia carne"? What is the difference between sia... sia and sia...che?


    Is veg too colloquial?

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    It is a little too informal for this setting.


    A tiny tip, "veggies" is accepted if you are tiring of spelling (misspelling) vegetables


    i omitted the "che" the first time and it was counted wrong. ok. When it came up again I listened three times to the recording and there is no "che", so I left it out. Got marked wrong again. Very poor recording if I couldn't hear it three times. I even turned up my volume AND my hearing aids. haha


    I have learned one thing from these listening questions and that is you cannot count on the male voice to be clear.


    I think you’re right. I just need to listen very carefully. Thanks.


    Be aware, when listening to the word "per", the male voice in slow motion will sound like he is saying "terra" or "perra". The normal speed is a bit clearer for that word " per:. This makes it quite difficult for new learners. I wish DL would change that speaker or use the woman's voice only on the listening exercises. Good Luck!


    Ah, that is an interesting point! But this is what you hear when most foreigners speak English, they have "shadow vowels" at the end of their words. We English speakers are actually the weird ones (German speakers too, but they have super crisp final consonants!) in that we don't have these shadow vowels. So that "per(a)" you are hearing is how most other languages treat their final consonants. It just is really prevalent in Italian.


    You are so correct! Thank you for that phrase "shadow vowels". I have a couple of foreign born friends that speak English and those vowels are audible so as to know that English is not their native language. This advice was intended for Wendytel, but I am glad you pointed this out. It is an ongoing issue for some of us. Very good point!


    I have been in various school and church choirs in my life and in all my seventy some odd years, I have never come across the term "shadow vowels". Thank you for educating me in this. Opera is beyond my abilities, but not my appreciation. Congratulations on such a wonderful career choice. In my opinion, music can move mountains and is a gift from God.


    Apparently I now have to reply to myself! As a further point, when I coach my opera singers, I have to point out where they are leaving out shadow vowels when singing in, say, French. Sometimes composers will actually give these shadow vowels a separate note! Apparently this is intended to help the audience better understand the words. It is frankly very difficult to understand sung text in any language even by its own native speakers, it's just an issue we always face.


    Too true. And this is true in the other languages I'm working on, too. One voice is always harder to understand; I think it's because of the way they cut and paste many words together to make a sentence. The speaker doesn't always read the full sentence for the audio recording, and that becomes more apparent in some sentences than others. I always hit the "slow" button just to be doubly sure of what I heard when I don't "know that I know" from context.


    It could be "as well as"


    Should it be "sia... che" or should it be "sia... e/ed"?


    Or "sia... sia", apparently. According to the link you provided, "sia... che" is not as correct.

    "Nota: Come cong. viene usata la forma sia... sia... (o anche quella meno corretta sia... che...)"


    I did confirm with a native speaker first, and he says sia...che, colloquially, whether or not it's more grammatically correct ;)


    One way of looking at it is that sia is the subjunctive of essere. The use of the english subjunctive, now old fashioned would be, I eat be it vegetable or meat. In modern english "both" works much better but for me it helps to think of that construction rather than a word meaning something entirely different


    im still really confused why you would use "che" instead of "e/ed"


    It's just a fixed expression. It's just like an English student asking why you use "either" and not just "or... or..." in "either ... or ...".


    Why didn't it accept and between vegetables and meat?


    I think "between" would be "tra" or "fra."


    You took a heart because I used & instead of and when it means the same ???? Not really fair is it ??

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    You're addressing a computer algorithm in a forum for fellow students to help each other out.


    I'm sorry for your loss, but I will give you good news: Duo accepts "veggie" and "veggies" when you don't feel like spelling out "vegetables". Perhaps just don't use symbols? Or, it is possible you have a hidden actual mistake you haven't found yet. I find that to be my own case way too many times.


    Why isn't "beef" accepted besides "meat"?


    Because Beef translates to 'manzo' and meat to 'carne' in Italian.

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