To say "both" using "sia" in Italian, we use the following construction: "sia + (object) + sia/che + (object)."
For "or", we could use "o," "oppure," or the "ne' + (object) + ne' + (object)" construction (that last one is more like "neither + (object) + nor (object)"). There are probably more, those are just the ones off the top of my head.
Although I'm just learning Italian and I, too, was confused by the introduction of "sia... che", I am also a graduate student in Applied Linguistics... which is a fancy way to say "Second Language Acquisition (SLA) epistemology and theory." I say this only to introduce the scholarly perspective that involves immersing students with unknown content as a method of language instruction. This method is highly regarded in the academic community and it's commonly referred to as the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD). It seems this peer community is serving as the mentor in the ZPD instruction model and I'm grateful to those who contributed. I found several examples very helpful. Thanks.
It makes sense, but after you get through a certain bit of you you start to understand a structure. Plus they allow you to cheat by hovering over each new word. So they really are teaching it to you, immediately in context, instead of treating you like a baby and teaching you every single word separately like it's on a flashcard. They are trying to speed up the practical use/get you as fluent as fast as possible, so you can actually speak in person with a native Italian. You may not use "sia... che" in your every day conversational Italian, but they will make sure you know it in case you ever want to sound really grammatically perfect.
My (subject) from above can also be a verb. It's whatever the person is talking about. For your example question, I think the Italian would be:
"Sia ballare sia/che cantare posso."
I put "posso" at the end as every instance I can recall of "sia...sia/che..." has it at the beginning of the sentence.
I agree 100%! I am progressing through all the lessons in order, and go through all the tips, and suddenly gave come across 5-6 words in a single lesson that I've never seen before and have no idea what they are or mean. That's not a good way to learn. It's frustrating, and I won't remember them all because there hasn't been enough repetition or use, and I don't know the conjugations.
I absolutely agree. It is not good to learn without understanding.
New words can be taught by simply putting it into new exercises. And as we make mistakes - we learn. But conjunctions now I'm finding hard to learn because for example first we learn that "o" means "or" and then some "oppure" pop out of nowhere... how is that different? Or it isn't at all? and more. Kinda discouraging.
They are trying to speed up the practical use/get you as fluent as fast as possible, so you can actually speak in person with a native Italian. You may not use "sia... che" in your every day conversational Italian, but they will make sure you know it in case you ever want to sound really grammatically perfect.
There was an earlier sentence in this same lesson (though I'm not sure that everyone sees the same sentences in the same order) which was something like: Io cucino sia verdura sia carne" (I don't remember if that was it exactly, but it was something like that. I'm not sure "sia" appeared twice, but it appeared at least once). I put "I cook vegetables and meat" and got marked wrong because I left out the articles - it should have been "I cook both the vegetables and the meat." People in the comments explained the need for the articles by suggesting that this was a current action (I am now cooking these veggies and this meat) not just a claim about what I do regularly, or can do. So for this new sentence I put "I eat both the vegetable and the meat" (that is, I included the articles) - and got marked wrong for including them. So what gives? Is it that 'sia....sia" indicates a current action, whereas "sia.....che" indicates a habit, or ongoing action? Is that because "sia" is in the subjunctive? Even if that's it, I don't understand why it would have been in the subjunctive in the first sentence - sia.....sia - given that sentence involved a current action - "I am (now) cooking both the vegetables and the meat". Help!
To me in both languages it seems perfectly fine, as a native speaker would put it. In English the unspecific plural just is vegetables (the singular doesn't make any sense) and in Italian it is simply the singular. One should rather learn to translate the sense correctly than strictly literally.
I had a hard time finding the sia...che form online, but i finally found this on wordreference.com:<pre>
He's both tall and handsome. È sia alto che bello.</pre>
I still don't understand the grammatical logic of it, but I don't care. I plan on using it and remembering it, perche è sia utile che divertente ;-)
I see this sentence is still generating confusion. I blame this on DuoLIngo--which I otherwise love! I'm a student, so take my input with caution, but... When I first saw "sia verdura che carne" I thought for sure it was an error and I even commented on it. I was wrong. I was expecting a construction like ne...ne. Where does the "che" suddenly come from? Especially when sia...sia is also a valid construction. There are no grammatical explanations offered in the exercises, so we were all left hanging. Well, I read a lot more and I see sia...sia and sia...che constructions in articles. Researching it further I see that sia...sia is the older form and parallels other constructions like siano...siano or fosse...fosse. Sia...che is a more recent construction. Further, in long, compound sentences, where the things being compared are long phrases (not just a meat and a vegetable) containing one or more "that's" (in italiano che), the extra "che" of che...che can lead to confusion. We won't see this in DuoLingo (probably), so understanding both forms is useful.
I also found this explanation (see link below). It has something to do with the outcome/ context. Both.. and .. (sia ... sia ...) “Sia + sia” can also express “Whether (this), OR (that), the result is still the same.” Whether... or... (Sia + che)
I eat/cook BOTH the veggies AND the meat or, WHETER I eat veggies OR meat, i like them both..
Hope I interpreted the explanation right. Here's the link: http://icebergproject.co/italian/2015/11/how-to-use-sia-sia-in-italian-or-how-to-say-both-pasta-and-pizza-sound-good/
"But I’ve heard “sia + che,” too. Is that wrong? Nope. Using the “sia + che” construction is right, too, but “sia + sia” is preferred because it lessens the chance that your next “che” could be confused as “that,” especially in lengthy sentences"
It doesn't depend on the sia/che (which is however grammatically incorrect in Italian, even if much used). It's just that you used the singular "verdura" as an uncountable noun, when referring to "all the vegetables" in general. "Le verdure" refers to some particular vegetables.
Yeah it's a bit annoying that Duo just expects you to know things sometimes, but we learn it and redo the lesson and move on. We as humans have such issues with being wrong. It's okay, to be wrong sometimes, no one thinks you're dumb, really. With that being said, we should all remember that this is a program that is teaching us a language for free, with no strings attached. This is a valuable resource which we should appreciate before we go complaining.
Thanks...of all comments this helps...along with another that says it's a fixed expression! Saying it that way in English helped me understand better knowing Portuguese as it compares well...eu como tanto (x amount) vegetais que carne. Expression together makes for "as much as" so I guess in Italian it's slightly different with using 'both' (sia)...
Unless sia has more meanings and is actually same in this context then, but with duolingo giving the "both" and "and" in the answer only. :s
It's helpful if you know french. This sentense would translate similarily, like: je mange autant de la verdure que de la viande". In ftench we would say a plural "des légumes" (vegetables) instead, but this works for a simple example. But i wanted ti show how "autant...que" is similar to what is used in italian and it can be translated in english as "I eat "as much" (autant) vegetables "as" (que) meat.
The construction is "sia + (subject) + sia/che + (subject)..." Whether we use "sia" or "che" in the second part is completely up to us. They are entirely interchangeable. I've read that Italians will use whichever sounds better (like how we're supposed to choose between "tra" and "fra"), though I'm not exactly sure how one sounds better over the other.
Here's what I understand from this sentence; think of this example:
He's both tall and handsome. È sia alto che bello.
It is actually like: He be(is) tall as he is handsome. So this actually means. He is a tall person as he is a handsome person. He has both the qualities equally.
This is my first time with romance languages so this is just a hypothesis and an easier way to make sense of the sentence. Correct me if I'm wrong
i omitted the "che" the first time and it was counted wrong. ok. When it came up again I listened three times to the recording and there is no "che", so I left it out. Got marked wrong again. Very poor recording if I couldn't hear it three times. I even turned up my volume AND my hearing aids. haha
Be aware, when listening to the word "per", the male voice in slow motion will sound like he is saying "terra" or "perra". The normal speed is a bit clearer for that word " per:. This makes it quite difficult for new learners. I wish DL would change that speaker or use the woman's voice only on the listening exercises. Good Luck!
Ah, that is an interesting point! But this is what you hear when most foreigners speak English, they have "shadow vowels" at the end of their words. We English speakers are actually the weird ones (German speakers too, but they have super crisp final consonants!) in that we don't have these shadow vowels. So that "per(a)" you are hearing is how most other languages treat their final consonants. It just is really prevalent in Italian.
You are so correct! Thank you for that phrase "shadow vowels". I have a couple of foreign born friends that speak English and those vowels are audible so as to know that English is not their native language. This advice was intended for Wendytel, but I am glad you pointed this out. It is an ongoing issue for some of us. Very good point!
I have been in various school and church choirs in my life and in all my seventy some odd years, I have never come across the term "shadow vowels". Thank you for educating me in this. Opera is beyond my abilities, but not my appreciation. Congratulations on such a wonderful career choice. In my opinion, music can move mountains and is a gift from God.
Apparently I now have to reply to myself! As a further point, when I coach my opera singers, I have to point out where they are leaving out shadow vowels when singing in, say, French. Sometimes composers will actually give these shadow vowels a separate note! Apparently this is intended to help the audience better understand the words. It is frankly very difficult to understand sung text in any language even by its own native speakers, it's just an issue we always face.
Too true. And this is true in the other languages I'm working on, too. One voice is always harder to understand; I think it's because of the way they cut and paste many words together to make a sentence. The speaker doesn't always read the full sentence for the audio recording, and that becomes more apparent in some sentences than others. I always hit the "slow" button just to be doubly sure of what I heard when I don't "know that I know" from context.
One way of looking at it is that sia is the subjunctive of essere. The use of the english subjunctive, now old fashioned would be, I eat be it vegetable or meat. In modern english "both" works much better but for me it helps to think of that construction rather than a word meaning something entirely different
I'm sorry for your loss, but I will give you good news: Duo accepts "veggie" and "veggies" when you don't feel like spelling out "vegetables". Perhaps just don't use symbols? Or, it is possible you have a hidden actual mistake you haven't found yet. I find that to be my own case way too many times.