Okay, I've copied an explanation I found on the Internet that clears up this indirect construction.
With mancare, the subject of the sentence is the person/thing being missed, which determines the verb to be used, while the person doing the liking is the indirect object:
I miss my parents. Mi mancano ai miei genitori.
My parents miss me. Manco ai miei genitori.
(In Italian, when the indirect objcet is not a pronoun, it is preceded by the preposition, a.)
I'd expect to be at the very least introduced to cases in Italian grammar before having to face these sort of structures... Same story with piace, very very confusing. If it hadn't been for helpful comments I wouldn't stand a chance in translating this
No language program is ever comprehensive enough to cover speaking, writing and reading and particularly not grammar. This is a free app and it is an extremely helpful resource. No one will learn all of the nuances of the language instantly.
I understand that and i love it is a free app but the creators could help us with some explanations in many exercises.
Here you have them :D
I appreciate this feature of DuoLingo. It does not provide the grammar reference present in classical handbooks (which are always boring). Instead, the users select the explanation that helps where it's needed :)
Btw, it is explained in the Tips and Notes. ;)
Here is an analoguous construction for y'all:
"I do not matter to her."
We don't say "She does not matter me", we say "I don't matter to her."
Well, that is how "mancare" works in Italian.
Now THAT, vvsey, is the best explanation (for my brain) yet. Thanks. Now, if I can just remember it!
How would you suggest duoLingo introduce you to this topic? They have no structure to provide grammar other than discussions; they are relying on help from the community, which occurs in these discussions. If people wish grammar rules, there is a plethora of books on Italian grammar and links on the internet. I felt that this was about as simple a clitic / mancare sentence there is, and wish there were more of them this simple. Also notice they aren't flooding us with other verbs of the same type, just a few at first (piacere / mancare), so we can get past the pain of it. I am sure then we'll be prepared for the other verbs later.
Ciao! Non ' ' Mi mancano i miei genitori?'. Perché hai scritto l'articolo con la preposizione anche nella prima frase? è errore di distrazione o è giusto? Ciao di nuovo, dalla Grecia
Ciao, sì è un errore - You are right, there is a small mistake in the first phrase:
I miss my parents. - Mi mancano i miei genitori (= a me mancano i miei genitori)
My parents miss me. - Manco ai miei genitori.
It's actually mi mancano i miei genitori. The subject ofmancare is i miei genitori and the indirect object is mi (could also be written as a me).
The plain way to write the sentence is i miei genitori mancano a me or i miei genitori mi mancano.
I do not think that you need a preposition in your first example. "my parents" are the subject of the sentence it this case so it would just be "mi mancano i miei gentry" = "Lit: My parents are missing to me" your translation reads "to my parents are missing to me". Direct translation should hardly ever be used, in my opinion when learning a language, I'm just trying to give an example. I'm not 100%, so if I'm wrong then tell me.
And yet another premature introduction - "le" - I assume this is a personal pronoun, looking at the answer. Forget the problems with mancare itself, why is "le" even here? No chance of getting this one unless you are studying elsewhere and have already met this concept.
After many weeks I have an idea. Translate mancare as is missing. Thus il gatto manca (the cat is missing). Then when all this about her not missing me comes up with is missing all you can say is I am not missing to her which is the sentence.
Can someone explain this to me: I google translated "He does not miss me" (because I was wondering what the indirect male pronoun was if the female one was "le") and it said "Lui non mi manca." Is this a huge error on Google's part or is this how some people would actually say it in conversation?
Same verb, right? But this translation runs counter to what we're being taught? Or am I missing something?... Does "Lui non mi manca" maybe mean that he misses you, in that you're missing because you're not physically there, so a different non-emotional sense of "missing" is what Google was translating? Just trying to understand all this!
Yeah, either the (transitive) non-emotional sense (he doesn't miss me in the sense that he hits me, or he catches me) or a mistake. "He does not miss me" in the usual (intransitive) emotional sense is "io non gli manco".
If I understood well, our current sentence could have two forms:
1 - Lei non me manca(Transitive, non-emotional sense);
2 - Io non le manco(Intransitive, emotional sense);
So, how could my wrong answer "I don't miss her" be translated to Italian? Can it also have two possible forms as well? I won't try because I haven't reached clitics yet.
I have read about it, researched and finally achieved this translation to my wrong answer: "lei non mi manca"(I don't miss her). Is it the transitive or intransitive form?
Well, "mi" can be both direct and indirect clitic pronoun, so "lei non mi manca" would be ambiguous, but it does translate "I don't miss her" in the emotional sense, e.g. "she left, but I don't miss her" (è andata via, ma non mi manca). "I don't miss her" in the transitive sense would be, e.g. "le sparo e non la manco" (I shoot her and I don't miss her); as you can see this meaning is unlikely in the present :) To appreciate the difference between "la" (direct her) and "le" (indirect her), you really need the clitics lesson.
Thank you so much man. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer. That's exactly what I needed to move on. Ciao!
I've been practising Italian for years, and when I got to this lesson have had to look through all the comments to try and understand what's going on... Turns out my confusion stems from the fact that I've never seen anyone state ""la" (direct her) and "le" (indirect her)"; I literally had no idea! So thank you very much for this f.formica! I don't know how to use them, but at least I know to look out for them now.
thank you but wait, then what is "lo"? I thought that was the alternative of "le" and that "gli" was plural.
"Lo" is the direct object clitic pronoun, you can use it with the transitive form of mancare, while the intransitive form requires an indirect object. Although many clitics are "recycled" as both articles and pronouns, they have completely different meanings. This link has a good overview of personal pronouns, although a bit concise: www.uvm.edu/~cmazzoni/3grammatica/grammatica/personalpronouns.html
Many thanks for this. In my various attempts to learn Italian in the past it has always been the *** Italian pronouns that did for me.
Found this on thoughtco.com
Indirect object + verb + subject.
Not your usual sentence structure, but in the case of piacere (to please, to like) that's the way it works in Italian, and here's why: In English, you say: A likes B. In Italian, though, the same meaning is understood in different terms: B pleases A.
Here are some examples:
Agli italiani piace il calcio. (Italians like soccer) Literally: Soccer is pleasing to Italians.
Ai professori piace insegnare. Professors like teaching. Literally: Teaching is pleasing to professors.
Mi piacciono le carote. I like carrots. Literally: Carrots are pleasing to me.
Note that in these examples, piacere is conjugated to match the SUBJECT of the sentence; in the first example: Agli italiani piace il calcio, piacere is conjugated in the third person singular form, to match with calcio (soccer) and not with agli italiani(all Italians).
Other verbs that follow this construction of inversion and behave similarly to piacere are listed below.
bastare-to be sufficient, to suffice
dispiacere—to displease, to upset
mancare—to be lacking, to miss
occorrere—to require, to need
servire—to serve, to be of use
silen03 - yes if you put "sentire" it clears it up. It just I have a block when it come to "Io non le manco" translating to She does not miss me. Lei non sente la mia mancanza would the program accept it? Grazie per l'aiuto
I don't think Duo accepts it, although I think it should, because in Italian the meaning is the same. On the other hand I think also it's important to you to learn this way to use "mancare" (I mean as "io non le manco"), because it's quite common in Italian. You're welcome!
This is difficult. So 'Io non le manco' means 'she does not miss me' Then presumably "Io non alla ragazza manco" means 'the girl does not miss me'? What does "Io non alla ragazza piaccio" mean? I would have thought something like "The girl does not like me"? Then "Io non alla ragazza dispiaccio" means the girl does not dislke me? and finally "Ci non alla ragzza dispiacciamo" means 'the girl does not dislike us'. I have no confidence at all in these translations!
the girl does not miss me= io non manco alla ragazza
the girl does not like me= non piaccio alla ragazza
the girl does not like us= non piacciamo alla ragazza
So really, "mancare" translates as something like "to be missed by someone"? And "io non manco alla ragazza" is like "I am not missed by her"? This is in contrast to Piacere which means "to please" so "mi piace" actually means something like "[it] pleases me". That is the only way I can figure out the verb endings (which actually make perfect sense for piacere, but none whatsoever for mancare...lol)
How can " Io non le manco" Translate to She doesn't miss me." Can some one explain please!!!
My French teacher taught me this trick when I was little (it's the same thing with the French verb manquer):
Don't think of "mancare" as to miss; think of it as "to lack." So when you see "Io non le manco," translate it in your head as "I am not lacking to her." It involves a whole new way of structuring the sentence, but it has the same sense.
It literally means: I am not missing to her. 'Le' means to her. It is an INDIRECT PRONOUN.
The other indirect pronouns include:
mi - to me ti - to you le - to her gli - to him Le - to you (polite form) ci - to us vi - to you (plural) gli - to them.
io non le manco actually means 'she does not miss me' and not 'I am not missing her'.
The subject in English ('she') becomes the indirect object in Italian (le) and the object in English ('me') becomes the subject in Italian (io).
That is the clearest explanation I have seen! Would have been nice if they had covered indirect pronouns before introducing them though.
I dont understand how "io non le manco" implies "she"....how then would you say 'He does not miss me'?
Here are some samples of how the verb mancare is used. Hope is of help!
- ‘to miss’ someone or something’ is expressed in the following way in Italian:
mi manca la mia famiglia – I miss my family (literally: my family is missing for me)
mi mancano i giorni caldi dell’estate – I miss the hot summer days (literally: the hot summer days are missing for me)
non ti manca l’Inghilterra? – don’t you miss England? (literally: isn’t England missing for you?)
ti mancano i tuoi? – do you miss your parents? (literally: aren’t your parents missing for you?)
mi manchi – I miss you (literally: you are missing for me)
- ‘to miss’ as in miss a target or goal is expressed in the following way in Italian:
ha mancato la rete – he missed the goal
ho mancato il bersaglio per un pelo – I missed the target by a hair
other common uses of mancare:
quanto manca alla partenza? – how long before we leave? (literally: how much time is lacking before the departure?)
mancano dieci minuti – there are ten minutes left (literally: ten minutes are lacking)
che ore sono? …. mancano cinque minuti alle dieci – what time is it? …. it’s five to ten (literally: five minutes are lacking before ten)
mi mancano le chiavi – I haven’t got my keys with me (literally: my keys are lacking to me)
ci manca il latte – we haven’t got any milk left (literally: the milk is lacking to us)
è mancata la corrente – there was a power failure (literally: the current was lacking)
oggi mi manca la voglia di pulire la casa – I don’t have the will to clean the house today (literally: today the will to clean the house is lacking for me)
alla riunione mancava solo Giovanni – only Giovanni wasn’t at the meeting (literally: at the meeting there was missing only Giovanni)
we also use the word mancanza to express a lack, absence or shortage of someone/thing:
sento la sua mancanza – I miss him (literally: I feel his absence)
ha dimostrato una mancanza di tatto – he showed a lack of tact
durante la guerra c’era sempre una mancanza di cibo – there was always a lack of food during the war
NOTE: I found this explanation on "Learning Italian with us" website it was posted by Serena on Apr 19, 2011.
I think of this sentence as being translated as "I am not missing to her." So, as vvsey states, 'I' should be the subject. On the other hand, I am no English major.
They write 'io non le manco' and mark it correct, yet provide the translation as 'She does not miss them.' Confused.
io non le manco means either 'You do not miss me' or 'she does not miss me' (le can refer to 'you' or 'she', depending on the context).
'she does not miss them' would be non le mancano.
In piacere, the person/thing who is doing the action of liking is in an indirect case (ex. 'I talk to her):
la is a direct pronoun ('I see her').
Also le is both an indirect ('to her') and a direct pronoun ('them').
Direct pronouns are: