"З рибою і картоплею"

Translation:With fish and potato

6/10/2015, 1:40:24 PM

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/LeBalochard
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If the English is "with fish and potatoes" (fish in the plural) would not the Ukrainian be "З рибами і картоплями"? (Or for fish in the singular, "З рибою і картоплями".) I have reported this but if I am in error, please let me know....Thanks! :)

6/10/2015, 1:40:24 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Vinnfred
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Риба and картопля are mass nouns in Ukrainian

6/10/2015, 2:05:34 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/LeBalochard
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Я розумію але . . . I thought mass nouns were only declined differently in the genitive case? (grrrr....this is going to worry me as I had a LOT of trouble figuring out which nouns were mass/non-mass or countable/non-countable when I was at the YKY summer language institute in Lviv.... :( )

6/10/2015, 5:00:33 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Vinnfred
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"з рибами" exists in Ukr., but it's instrumental of риби, which is technically plural of риба, but isn't used this way. It's the name of the species and a zodiac sign (pisces).

These mass nouns are declined like any similar singular noun would, not plural

6/10/2015, 5:26:49 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/LeBalochard
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Merci beaucoup!

6/10/2015, 6:26:03 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Zonia435615

Should also be able to use "з бараболею" for "with potato".

11/3/2016, 10:11:54 AM

[deactivated user]

    This is a dialectal word, and speakers of other dialects might not understand it.

    11/4/2016, 2:02:31 PM

    https://www.duolingo.com/Zonia435615

    Dialectical words should also be accepted in DL Ukrainian terminology. The Ukrainian language is very rich in its meanings of words. It's wonderful to see & hear Ukrainian words from different regions! And from different countries where the 'old' Ukrainian language had been retained & used by the Ukr. speaking population when Ukraine was 'Russified' during the Soviet Era. We can learn & relearn the 'old' authentic words phrases and sayings from countries like Canada, USA, Australia, England, Brazil, and other European countries where Ukrainians live. We can grow as a fully global language! It's exciting! :D

    12/30/2016, 12:03:16 PM

    [deactivated user]

      Most language courses don't accept dialectal words. For example, the English course won't accept 'nain' instead of 'grandmother', even though it's a perfectly correct word in Northern England.

      It's not accepted for several reasons:

      • There are just too many dialects, and too many words in each. The amount of work required to add all dialects is enormous.
      • The dialects are not well-defined, they have no standard way of writing then. We known that the standard word for 'piano' is «піаніно», and it's written exactly this way. Suppose we wanted to add the English loanword 'piano'. How should we write it? «Піано», «піяно», «пʼяно», «пяно»? There are no standard rules, so we don't know what to add.
      • What is correct in one variety of the language is wrong in another. E.g. if you allow to use «є» like you use it, then people won't learn how to use «є» in literary Ukrainian.

      So, all the language courses focus on one variety of language or several main varieties (e.g. Ukrainian course focuses on literary Ukrainian used in Ukraine, but not on American Ukrainian; Portuguese course focuses on Brazilian and European Portuguese, but not on African).

      1/2/2017, 2:19:13 AM

      https://www.duolingo.com/Zonia435615

      Actually, I think people will understand it better as 'бараболя' or 'бульба'. 'Картофля' comes from the 'russified regions' of Ukraine and ' картофля' іs dialectic.

      1/1/2017, 6:34:03 PM

      [deactivated user]

        Sorry, no. All words start out as dialectal, so of course it belongs to some dialects. However, as people speak to each other, write books and articles, this leads to a process of unification. This is how a literary language is created.

        Some dialectal words become shared between all the speakers, and others remain known only in some regions. This is how карто́пля became the default work throughout Ukraine, and бараболя and бульба are regional. (Бульба has better luck in Belarus, by the way: it is the word used in literary Belarusian.)

        The problem is, Canadian Ukrainians didn't share the same literary language, because you didn't read the same Ukrainian books or articles. BUT you also haven't created you own literary language, because you didn't write much Canadian Ukrainian books or article, you don't have a standard dictionaries or grammars defining Canadian Ukrainian (AFAIK). So, you don't have your own Canadian Ukrainian literary language (because you use English for books and things like that), and you don't know the literary language that emerged in Ukraine.

        All dialects just can't be included in Duolingo, because (a) it is just too much work, there are dozens of variants for each word, (b) some dialectal versions contradict each other, using the same words in completely different fashion. So, Duolingo only includes standard literary languages. This means Canadian Ukrainian will not be included in Duolingo, at least until you write a dictionary, a grammar and a sizable body of literature for Canadian Ukrainian to establish it as a standartized language.

        I would love to see Canadian Ukrainian either established as a separate literary language, or influencing Ukrainian of Ukraine. But this hasn't happened yet. There are no Canadian Ukrainian dictionaries, and Canadian Ukrainian words are not in the dictionaries for Ukrainian in Ukraine. So, this is why they haven't been included in Duolingo either.

        1/2/2017, 2:06:36 AM

        https://www.duolingo.com/Walter375725
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        Why Duo gives the "you are wrong" for translation "with fish and wish potatoes. Duo give as right answer: "With fish and THE potatoes". "THE" doesn't belong here. No indication in the context that potatoes in question is definite potatoes, for example from this particular plate or pan. Just potatoes without "THE"

        12/20/2017, 2:53:35 AM
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