"Aro de arboj estas arbaro."

Translation:A group of trees is a forest.

3 years ago

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Smalde
Smalde
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Esperantistoj ŝatas taŭtologioj.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SimonFarrelly

And old Irish maths teacher joke "What is t(h)ree t(h)rees?" "9?" "No. A small forest." :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jones_Rick
Jones_Rick
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Are "amikaro and amikoj"the same ?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ferrum
ferrum
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"mia amikaro" is something like "my circle of friends". The two words are effectively interchangeable, but you might choose "amikaro" if you wanted to stress group membership or exclusivity: "vi ne estas en mia amikaro".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jones_Rick
Jones_Rick
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That is what I thought.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GastonDorren
GastonDorren
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Wouldn't it take an 'arego de arboj' to deserve the word 'forest'? I wouldn't dream of calling a mere group of trees a forest.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sennoma
sennoma
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Actually, it's beyond subjective interpretation. Think of it as a set rather than several individuals. Don't think of the arboj, but rather as an abstract collection structure.

Ekzemple, let's say you want to group together members in a household. The household is the aro; the set. Once that is established, you can begin to include household members. Few members, many members, one member... it doesn't matter. What matters is that there is an abstract set called the "household", and within that set is members.

As another example, I'll use the Python language for readability. Imagine the following scenario:

aro = []

aro.append("Alico")

aro.append("Benito")

aro += alialisto

No matter how many members exist in the list aro, be it just "Alico", both "Alico" and "Benito", or even merging in a whole other list, aro is still an abstract collection which can contain members. It doesn't suddenly become a collection when it achieves an arbitrary member count. :) I hope that helps.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PfifltriggPi
PfifltriggPi
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No offence, I think the above is awesome. However...

You know you are among nerds when you see a post discussing Esperanto with analogies to set notation and Python. You know you are a nerd when you read and like the whole thing.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sanguine_Dreamer

Your comment reminded me of Nerd Girl Problems, so I went to read a few and learned that they haven't updated in over a year.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/consultjohan
consultjohan
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So an arbaro can consist of three trees, but still, three trees do not make a forest. So, the translation must be a bit off the mark, or what?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sennoma
sennoma
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For such specifics, I can't say that I'm the best candidate to directly answer. However, I will say that no specific definition of a forest is universally accepted. Hundreds of classification parameters are used around the world.

The takeaway here is that the more precise breakdown of "arbaro" is merely "arb" + "ar" + "o". Taken element by element, it's a tree group. Whether there are limits to culturally accepted use cases of "arbaro" in common parlance, though, I do not know.

All I was replying to above was that "aro" indicates a grouping, and that scope classifications aren't necessarily relevant to the truth value of the abstract group itself. For another example, take "bela". Words like "beleta" and "belega" exist as well, but those don't mean completely different things from "bela"; they merely specify further the scope (whether diminutive or augmentative) within the confines of "bela". In this case, I can imagine people using words like "arbarego" and "arbareto" depending on how they want to paint this abstract idea of a group of trees. Neither is totally different from "arbaro", though; just more specific.

Redakto: I just thought I'd point out that I actually don't like the inclusion of this phrase in Duolingo for this very reason. The direct translation would best be "A group of trees is a tree group", which is pointlessly redundant. I suspect this phrase was included to provide a means of teaching different forms with shared meaning; like "a cat which is red is a red cat". Frankly, there's nothing inherent to the elements "arb" or "ar" to indicate that there's an extra requirement. If such a requirement as "forest" often gets is imposed, then I'd assume it's just cultural.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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Well, one can also simply say that, while Esperantists would like to banish arbitrariness from the language, it will be there if the language is to communicate at all. In this case, it sounds like Esperantists have chosen the idea of a forest, rather than a copse or a grove, as the idea indicated by this particular group word, arbaro. I imagine the word arbareto would convey what I conceive of as a copse pretty well to other Esperantists. I'm sure that other -aro words would convey a larger or smaller sense of number. Of course, Mr Zamenhof could have developed a series of suffixes to indicated specific numbers, like the prefixes of the metric system, but I think these more vague terms function much more nicely as a language.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Quickfitter
Quickfitter
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So now I don't know whether to insist that 'A group of trees is a wood' should be accepted. Isn't the problem with English rather than Esperanto? I too tried first with 'copse' but that's specifically a small group of trees. Surely the most generic word is 'wood' though, because a forest is specifically a very large group of trees and so far as I understand the Esperanto word doesn't have that sense.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GastonDorren
GastonDorren
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Thanks for this, Synteq! Very helpful.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sennoma
sennoma
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Kial "de" estas uzata anstataŭ "da"? Aro estas kolekto, kiu enhavas elementojn, ĉu ne? Simile kiel la frazo "listo da vortoj" por listo, kiu enhavas vortojn, kial "arbaro" ne estas aro, kiu enhavas arbojn, do "aro da arboj"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EmanueloArbaro

Por uzi la prepozicion "da", necesas ke la antaŭa vorto enhavas ideon de kvanto. "Aro" estas tro nedefinita laŭ mi por uzi "da" kun ĝi, oni ne povas respondi al la demando "kiom da arboj estas tie ĉi?" per "aro".

Vidu : http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/rolmontriloj/rolvortetoj/da/detalaj_reguloj.html

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sennoma
sennoma
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Dankon! Mi komprenas nun. Tial mi vidis "aro da elementoj", kiam la elementoj nombreblas en la aro. Do por nenombreblaj aroj, oni devus uzi la prepozicion "de" anstataŭe, se mi prave komprenas.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GarrettMonie

Kuru arbaro Kuru!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/drakovyrn
drakovyrn
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If I wanted to refer to a group of kids, would either infanaro or geknabaro be acceptable?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/F_J_Boldt
F_J_Boldt
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Should grove also be an acceptable translation for arbaro?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/xanthoxyl

"Wood" is not accepted for some reason.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DidierLois

It is accepted now.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Esperanta-kato
Esperanta-kato
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Aro de aroj estas araro. Seems not all words, we can make, do exist.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sennoma
sennoma
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Why would that not exist? It seems to me that a set of sets could be described as an araro.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/stephbutler19

Sennoma said:" I can imagine people using words like "arbarego" and "arbareto" depending on how they want to paint this abstract idea of a group of trees." So, would a grove (small group) of trees be an arbareto? Or would that be a small tree?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tomicxo

An «arbareto» would be a small grove of trees. An «arbetaro» would be a forest of shrubs. And I guess an «arbetareto» would be a grove of shrubs?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Williams_Dakota

How do you say woods as in: "The Hickaly Woods has a giant skeleton in it." That's a Zelda refrence, in case you didn't know. But the question is serious.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sa967St
Sa967StPlus
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This reminds me of the Chinese characters for tree (木), woods (林), and forest (森).

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnnikaQED
AnnikaQED
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If "arbaro" is forest, then what is an "orchard"? "Forests" and "orchards" differ not so much by size as by "intent": forests are natural, while orchards planted in an organized way for harvesting.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ThelmOSo

Orchards is a place with fruit trees, so: fruktarbejo or fruktarbaro probably is a good option? :)

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nicomr1920

I think a forest is not the same as a group of trees, but a whole ecosystem. A plantation of trees for timber production is not a forest

5 hours ago
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