"O gazeteyi okumaman lazım."
Translation:It is necessary that you do not read that newspaper.
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We can agree upon that. But you know perfectly well the meaning of the English translation. And we are here not to learn English, but to learn Turkish. And with such an aim in mind the English translation is perfect. Lazim means "it is necessary that", okumaman means "you do not read" and O gazeteyi means "that newspaper". The English translation is very close to the Turkish text. Which is much more important for me than the perfectness of the English text. The previous sentence was not in very good English, but again, you know what I mean.
Just out of cruosity, as a native of or fluent in English which sentence do you prefer for the same meaning?
You must not read that newspaper.
It is necessary that you not read that newspaper.
(Italics: No mistake.)
Hello, Francis. I'm all for non-clunky translations, but this one misses something important: The Turkish is saying that the person addressed must not read that newspaper, not merely that s/he doesn't need to. Lazım expresses necessity. What's necessary here? That you (okumaman) not read (okumaman) that newspaper.
https://elon.io/learn-turkish/lesson/gerek-laz%C4%B1m
https://www.colanguage.com/turkish-infinitive#outline2
Thanks Todd My understanding of Lazim is that it is a need rather than a necessity. If you want to upgrade to a necessity you would use zorunda or mecbur....but what do I know
That puts the negative on the need/necessity -- "do not need to read" -- as in, reading it is not required.
This exercise puts the negative on the reading -- "need to not read" -- as in, reading is forbidden ("not reading" is required).
All of the words in this lazım/gerek- category mean "needed" and "necessary" in equal measure.
It is not necessarily needed that you do not have to say that this sentence was not a joke. Thx.
I understand how the word is built:
oku-ma-ma-n
But which "ma" comes first, the negating suffix or the gerund suffix? My guess is the negating suffix. Am I right?
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the pronounciation of the word "okumaman" sounds like "okumamın" which can be way more confusing for learners, i had to listen to the sentence in slow mode and i am a native speaker
I understand lazım becomes ıt ıs "needed" because of the action being "that you dont read" the paper... therefore its better to use... ıt ıs necessary.
But I know necessary as "gerekli" So could I use that instead of lazım. is it just a straight swap?
As for warped English.. The context of the lesson is important here not necessarily the direct translation. ( Excuse the pun :D )
What is the problem with 'it is not necessary that you read newspaper"???
That moves the "not" from the "you read" to the "is necessary." It is a similar sentence, but it has a significantly different meaning.
You have also left out a meaning for the accusative -- it needs to be "the newspaper."
Let's see ...
okuma: reading
oku-ma-ma: not reading
okumaman: your not reading
Can somebody explain to me how i know the "O" is used to mean"that" newspaper as opposed to being the subject of the sentence (he/she)?
The subject of a "lazım" sentence will always be what is "necessary." Since "lazım" is not a verb, this is really an is-are-copula/linking sentence, essentially X is necessary (even thought it gets rephrased in English to "it is necessary that X"). The subject (X) is "O gazeteyi okumaman" and there is no room for anything else in the sentence. If "O" were the subject, it would be "He/she is necessary" -- but the sentence would have to end there, because there's no verb, no direct object, etc.
In written Turkish, in a sentence where "O" could be the subject), you would have to separate it from the sentence with a comma -- "O, gazeteyi..." In spoken Turkish, you wouldn't have a problem.