"Kiu estas ĉi tiu virino, kiu dormas ĉi tie?"

Translation:Who is this woman who sleeps here?

June 13, 2015

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/kaethevir

I ask myself that question every time...

July 29, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Dalingo8

Let me guess - you are a receptionist in a hotel or a motel, so when you come to work in mornings your ask who is that female guest who is sleeping here.

May 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Makaber00

Is this sentence a subordinate clause, or is it two combined sentences? The English is ambiguous. Could it mean "This woman who sleeps here, who is she?" Or could it be "Who is this woman? Who is it who is sleeping here?"

June 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Mutusen

It is a subordinate clause. Theoretically it could be two sentences, but I in this case I would write them separately: Kiu estas ĉi tiu virino? Kiu dormas ĉi tie?

June 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Makaber00

So, is the Esperanto as ambiguous as the English?

In German it would be clear. In German the translation would be either: "Wer ist diese Frau, die hier schlaeft?" or "Wer ist diese Frau? Wer schlaeft hier?", but the two German sentences have slightly, but clearly different meanings (unlike the English).

June 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Aramande

I don't know if it's accepted or not, but from what I could tell you could theoretically use ke instead of kiu the second time.

Kiu estas ĉi tiu virino, ke dormas ĉi tie?

Who is this woman that sleeps here?

June 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Mutusen

No, this is definitely incorrect. Ke is a conjunction, not a pronoun.

June 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Mutusen

Wanting to use ke as a relative pronoun is a common mistake of English and Romance-speaking beginners, because that (or que) in these languages have several meanings, but you can't use ke in this sentence because it just doesn't make sense.

If you want, you can read the PMEG pages about ke and relative clauses.

June 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Aramande

It would be incorrect for the translation, but would it be wrong grammatically and/or semantically?

June 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Aramande

From what I understand Kiu, kio and kies can be used as descriptive clauses, describing a subject or object in the mainclause. Ke seems to have many uses, but it doesn't describe a single word. I guess I'll have to get better to understand the finer details of Ke, but for now I know enough to tell the difference.

Have a lingot, as thanks. :D

June 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Mutusen

It is grammatically wrong.

June 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Aramande

Do you happen to have any sources that describe why Ke can't be used in this fashion? Because I can't see why it would be wrong.

June 20, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/HokonoSerejdo

Ke means "that", but it is conjunction "that", not relative pronoun "that" - and as usual, it is English that is ambiguous, not Esperanto (I seem to always point that out these days).

Ke can thus never function as a subject or object of a sentence, it just links two clauses together, and the second clause also needs its subject and predicate to be a complete sentence:

I see that you are sleeping here. (conj) Mi vidas, ke vi dormas ĉi tio.

I see you that sleep here. (pronoun) Mi vidas vin, kiu(j) dormas ĉi tio.

August 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/talideon

The ambiguity is resolved by where the rising tone marking the question falls in the case of both English and Esperanto.

July 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexZheXue

They are in fact to sentences, one into another. When "kiu" works as a subordinating conjunction it links the subordinate clause to the main one.

May 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexZheXue

The subordinate clause is "kiu dormas cxi tie".

May 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Brielo.o

Kiel vi diras Goldilocks en Esperanto?

September 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Siavel

Laŭ Vikipedio kaj Glosbe, la traduko de Goldilocks estas Orbuklulino.

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/erikblomqvist

Ŝi estas la dormanta belulino.

August 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/BiaOliveir8

"ĉi tiu" have the meaning of "this one"?

August 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/stjohnmccloskey

What is the first cxi doing in this sentence?

In other words, what would be different if we said "Kiu estas tiu virino, kiu dormas cxi tie?"

October 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Brielo.o

"Tiu virino" = "That woman"; "Ĉi tiu virino" = "This woman". In this case, it indicates proximity.

October 5, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Siavel

The first ĉi changes the meaning of tiu from that to this. The second ĉi changes the meaning of tie from there to here.

So, if you said "Kiu estas TIU virino [...]", it means "Who is THAT woman [...]". If you mean "Who is THIS woman [...]", you should say "Kiu estas ĈI TIU virino [...]".

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aryan658235

Jesuus, dankon viro

July 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Donald162130

You have all been very helpful. Thank you so much

February 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/HSchoch

Oh my, I had to listen to this many times to get it. And then...I laughed and understood the urgency in his rapid speech.

March 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ljburrow

Ĝi estas demando grava!

May 17, 2019
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