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"Ili ne devas fermi la pordon."

Translation:They do not have to close the door.

June 14, 2015

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Canvasian

How would one say "They must not close the door"? This was my answer but it was rejected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arbaro

Ili devas ne fermi la pordon, or ili ne fermu la pordon (though I don't know if duo would take the second one).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vortarulo

It should, if we were to translate the original sentence. :) And another possibility: Ili ne rajtas fermi la pordon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdenney99

My question as well, dankon!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AjxojLerni

can anyone confirm this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

Ili devas ne fermi la pordon - That's exactly how I wish Esperanto would express "They must not close the door.", but I can't find any evidence that Esperanto does this.

From my searches "ne devas fari ion" can mean either "must not do something" or "do not have to do something".

This is not a special problem in Esperanto - it is actually the normal situation in languages. The logical distinction between "must not" and "do not have to" is left to context, intonation or gestures in most languages I know (you can see the list displayed after my name); English is one of the exceptions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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"Do not have to" means it's optional.
"Must not" means it should not happen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

Yes, that is the distinction English makes.

But can you specify how Esperanto would make this distinction clear (beyond all ambiguity) in words alone (no contextual help, no intonational distinctions, no gestures etc.)?

In fact, is there any language you know, other than English, that makes this distinction clear through words alone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robinac

I put "They should not close the door," how is this wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/henmcb

Should in Esperanto is devus (the conditional form of devi, so that would be ili ne devus fermi la pordon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarthaGuide

It should be "they do not have to close the door" - it's optional, not that they should not, but that they do not have to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaurentRam2

Ili ne bezonas fermi la pordon?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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It's devi + verb phrase, bezoni + noun phrase. Just like the French it was taken from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

Okay.... That was way telegraphic. Verb phrase: a word or phrase that acts as a verb. Noun phrase: a word or phrase that behaves as a subject or object. Bezoni: to need. Mi bezonas nenion: I need nothing. (Nothing is a noun.) Devi: must. Oni ne devas kuri: one must not run. (Run is a verb.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan126555

Ils n'ont pas besoin de fermer la porte. - Zamenhof's "bezoni" is more restrictive than the French "avoir besoin de", since French does allow a verb to follow.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hardyguy

How many times will I get this wrong???? YYYYYYYYYATCH!!! Always I am going for "Open" as the primary form, and Esperanto has "closed" for the primary ("fermi") form. AAACK! So frustrating!! XD

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