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  5. "Junuloj devas iri al lernejo…

"Junuloj devas iri al lernejo."

Translation:Young people have to go to school.

June 15, 2015

48 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Whoaholycow

I always want to translate junuloj as youngsters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cavman144

those young'uns!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rippler

That's actually how I did it, and it was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickSilvestri

Unfortunately, whippersnappers is not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablussky

Lernejo can also mean other "learning places" such as University, academies and so on?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

No. "Lernejo" is generally understood to be basic education for children.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Asche42

I think the point BGXCB is trying to make is also a philosophical one.

Esperanto is supposed to be a constructed language with a small number of rules, it's supposed to make sense, not deviate into the meanders natural languages have found. If lernejo is literally lerno + -ej- and -ej- is place, then lernejo must be a place of learning, in English that's a school.

The fact that a subset of Esperantists (or even all of them for that matter) understand primary school or middle school is an alteration of the original meaning, here it's a synecdoche (you're using a broad word meaning school to qualify a more restricted idea). By restricting the meaning of lernejo, you also restrict the meaning of any compound word that could spawn out of it.

A primary school could be a knablernejo or a junlernejo. A church (so a place of worship for Christians) could be kristanpreĝejo.

There is no point in using a constructed language if it's to make it veer away from its original flexibility, otherwise Esperanto will become as convoluted as natural languages are, over time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

One could discuss endlessly about what the point is.

If you want to learn Esperanto, I can help you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BGXCB

Is there a difference between generally understood, and how the language works? It is generally understood, at least here, that pregxejo means church. However church is actually kirko, and pregxejo is the generic term for place of worship. Perhaps we have the same situation here, where lernejo is actually the generic term for place of learning, and school is really something more specific, perhaps skolo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Are you asking or telling?

When I say "generally understood", I basically mean that this is how Esperanto works. If you would like me to explain to you in more detail, I can.

Church is not "actually kirko. The word you will hear and which people will understand is pregxejo. The word kirko exists but is almost never used.

The word "lernejo" means k-12 school. Higher education would be universitato or some kind of altlernejo.

Skolo but it's it's more like "school of thought" and does not refer to a place of learning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dema90

I would expect "young persons need to go to school" to be an appropriate translation, is rejected though. Does it feel unnatural to English speakers? If not, please report.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Migranto

That's fine. I said "youths", also perfectly fine, and got marked wrong. There are a LOT of awkward translations in this lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

It accepted "youth" just now. Checking Webster's, I see that "youths" is the plural, but "youth" is the collective; since we're talking about all youth, not, say ten youths, I think "youth" is right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rippler

Except that's almost exclusively used as "the youth", as in, "The youth of today don't know how good they have it. We had to trudge five miles to school at five every morning!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/draquila

It's not exactly wrong, but "persons" is almost never used outside of a legal context, so I wouldn't expect it to be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/turombi

Where I'm from, one would never count "one person, two persons, three persons..." With the exception of school administrators, for some reason. Used to hear "any persons involved in the incident will be expelled" type of messages over the intercom all the time. Strangega!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaizinM

As other said, it's not wrong. But most native speakers instead use "people" when referring to more than one person. So you could say that, practically speaking, people is the plural of person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

Newscasters, and only newscasters, use "persons." Everyone else says "people;" but I'd say your sentence is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jayson_Virissimo

'Persons' is also widely used by lawyers and philosophers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BGXCB

must and need are different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielA212510

what's the difference between devas and bezonas?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2674

devi [verb] -- Ni devas lerni Esperanton.
bezoni [noun] -- Ni bezonas niajn komputilojn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brauxljo

Younglings wasn’t accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertGoul6

I said "Young people ought," which was marked incorrect. Does devas not mean ought as well as have to?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AANickFan

I think "ought to" is closer to "should".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MathieuBriere

"Junuloj" temas pri knaboj aŭ viroj ĉu ne? Laŭ mi, mi tradukus "junuloj" per "young men" ĉar ne estas skribita "gejunuloj". Kion vi opinias?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Junuloj - young people

Gejunuloj - a mixed group of young people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkVortexx

I need to be careful not to confuse the Portuguese meaning with the similar but different Esperanto meaning. In Portuguese, dever means "should", so "Os jovens devem ir à escola" means "the youths SHOULD go to school, but in Esperanto, it seems to mean "have to" or "need to". What would the the correct way of saying "should" in Esperanto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerbaltic

Should youngling not be an alternative to "young people"? Just for simplicity's sake?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Are you asking or telling?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Parnikkapore

Is there an Esperanto word for "going to school", i.e. not only travelling to a school, but also studying there, socializing there, and getting homework there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

In Paŝoj al Plena Posedo and elsewhere, you'll see an expression like vizit(ad)i lernejon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2674

I believe it's like the distinction in English:

  • al lernejo = to school (as in attending classes, studying, etc)
  • al la lernejo = to the school (as in geographically approaching the building)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I'm not sure why you say that ... about either language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lng52-._

Parnikkapore: "She is going to school to study, socialize and do a lot of homework!" ("Ŝi iras al lernejo por studi, socialigi kaj fari multajn hejmtaskojn!")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Parnikkapore

Funny, I guess I distinguish "going to school" (defined above) and "going to the school" (travelling to the school), while others don't?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lng52-._

Parnikkapore: "She is going to travel to the school to receive an education." ("Ela vai viajar para a escola para receber uma educação.") Whoops! I'm giivng you info in the wrong language-Portuguese instead of Esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

If you don't recognize somoene's username (e.g. Lng52-._), it's OK to ask for a source.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlfredTole2

Would "should go to the school" be correct? I used this translation and it was rejected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2674

I don't think so. "School" is the institution. "The school" is the literal building. I think Esperanto has the same distinction as English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

Since this is a question about English, I agree. I wouldn't say "go to the school" - unless you mentioned the school before (Edit or if it were obvious from the context that there was a specific school in mind.)

  • There is a school on Park Street and we have to be there at the school by 7 PM.

If it's a question about Esperanto, I've commented elsewhere, that I'd probably say "al la lernejo" to talk about school in general. Here's one example:

  • Verŝajne estas jam la kvara. Je la sepa mi jam devos ellitiĝi kaj iri al la lernejo.

(It's the first mention of any school in the book I'm quoting from.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2674

I'll defer to your expertise regarding how Esperanto says things, but in my experience, one goes to school to get an education, but one goes to the school to retrieve their forgotten bag from their locker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

but in my experience,

Why "but"? I thought I said I was agreeing with you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2674

Sorry. It's been a day. I misread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

I misread a post today too. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lng52-._

Rae.F: Bravo! Mi ŝatas tiun respondon.

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