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  5. "Treet står bortenfor huset."

"Treet står bortenfor huset."

Translation:The tree is past the house.

June 16, 2015

31 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulven87

One thing I wondered about is what really differentiates "bortenfor" and "forbi". Is bortenfor more to do when describing something which is static, but forbi is more often used when combined with a verb of movement, like going past something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae
Mod
  • 486

Correct. You could say that you're going "forbi" one house to get a better look at the house which is "bortenfor" it.

"Forbi" can also be used with other "action" verbs, you can for instance look "forbi" something, but "bortenfor" is mainly used with "is/lies/is located". You could say that one car is driving "bortenfor" the other, but that would mean that it's driving on the far side of the other car, not that it's passing it, so it's still about the location (relative to the other car) rather than the movement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulven87

Thanks a lot! Mainly be using ordnett.no and it doesn't make the physical distinction too clear. I just seem to remember seeing "forbi" used a fair bit when reading about movement. One moment that sticks out is Harry Potter looking out the window of the Hogwarts Express and he talked about objects using "forbi". Of course, I am reading the Norwegian translated versions. Work well side-by-side with the English originals, and another book to keep them from springing up and maintaining a line of sights. Will take a while to get all the wordplay, very well translated. Might see if my Einar Haugen dictionary is still around. Maybe it offers more clarity on matters, but glad we have a community of educated, kind people like yourself. Cheers!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae
Mod
  • 486

Bare hyggelig! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the Norwegian translation of Harry Potter, I've heard good things about it as well.

I added a small edit to my post above, as yours spurred me to nuance it a little. It's a little less clear cut now, but as you can see it's still about movement/action vs. location - just that the location may involve movement.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulven87

Thank you for clearing that up. Will add that to the Anki deck, but it is good that I was getting a sense of that distinction naturally. I try to do at least half my time spent with Norwegian reading and looking up the vocabulary. I find it helps cement the grammar and true connotations of words through the many contexts you see them in, much like a native does when they first learn.

I find the program "Learning With Texts" an excellent resource for reading text you can import and then looking up unknown words and have them automatically looked up in a dictionary with a full display of the range of translations. I am glad I found a username and password for ordnett.no as no other online dictionary cuts it.

If you are interested in checking out Learning with Texts, which is like a free, more flexible version of LingQ where you can set your own dictionary and don't have to quite frequently frown at a wall of lazy translations, it could prove useful to you. Can be configured for most any language. Takes a bit to install and get going but well worth. Det kan jeg si uten tvil!

http://lwt.sourceforge.net/

If you have for whatever reason not tried LingQ in the past and would like a slightly bigger explanation I will provide one, though you should find a video on that site which should do the job.

If you do want to try it and find it confusing at first, just stick with the instructions carefully. They will see you through and it all gets natural quickly. Wish more people were aware of this software and how it can immensely through the stage of relying on native content almost completely.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae
Mod
  • 486

That sounds like a good routine! Reading is my preferred mode of learning as well, and I quite enjoy the "Immersion" here though it's sadly not available for Norwegian.

Thank you for the tip as well, it looks promising. Unfortunately I haven't got much time left over for doing any language learning of my own at the moment, but I'll bookmark it for later.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anni.Panni

Hi Steven, I tried to install LWT but got stuck at step 5. I do not have data subfolder. Do you happen to know the solution? Thx a lot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hopp

Why 'the tree is standing behind the house' is incorrect? Duo is saying that behind is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ASkilletFan

because past doesn't necessarily mean behind. if an object is past a person and the person is walking towards it, then it would actually be in front of them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tattamin

But at the very moment that the statement is being made, behind and beyond do refer to the same location.
And if you walk past both of them, the tree then is neither before nor beyond the house but in front of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae
Mod
  • 486

"Bortenfor" only means farther away than something (in the same general direction), not completely on the other side of it and out of sight.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KrystleLeis

because if the tree is down the road from the house, its still past the house but not behind it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith_Price

Does it still make sense without the står? Treet bortenfor huset?'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alek_d
Mod
  • 429

It makes sense, but it is not a full sentence. It would be the same as "The tree beyond the house" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kilimanscharo

what is the different between "beyond the house" and " behind the house" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonjaJavielsker

'The tree is PAST the house' is not a grammatically correct English translation but we don't say the tree stands past the house.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spooncastro

That is a grammatically correct sentence in English. It is identical to saying "The tree is BEYOND the house". The sentence gives you subject, object, verb, and location. The verb is "being" and the vague location is "past".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DemiBarone

Why would it not be "Treet er bortenfor huset"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulven87

You will often hear sentences in English which are technically grammatically correct, but sound unnatural due to the word choice when said by some foreigners. Just that situation here, it is just the way they phrase it and have a specific verb choice which seems odd to us, but is natural in Norwegian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DemiBarone

Oh ok, so the sentence "treet er bortenfor huset" isn't an incorrect sentence, its just a weird way of saying it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DemiBarone

Or at least, norwegians would consider it a weird way of saying it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ulven87

Exactly. Though I can't speak on the subject like a native, I am half-Norwegian and have been exposed to Norwegian since I was a baby; though you could easily say "er" in the situation and be fully understood without question, people would very likely find it a slightly odd way of phrasing it.

When it comes to speaking about the location of things in Norwegian they tend to stick to using specific verbs for specific nouns, certain kinds of objects etc., and you just need to pick it up from exposure if you want to sound more natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DemiBarone

Tusen takk! This was very helpful


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vtopphol

It's not very weird. It's just an alternative way of saying it. It's less common, though, but perfectly usable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joris203989

is "bortenfor" the same as "nedenfor" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae
Mod
  • 486

"Nedenfor" implies a drop in elevation relative to the reference point, while "bortenfor" doesn't specify that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter450314

I am not sure if it my hearing, but it sounds like it is saying "tusa". Or is that just me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aleyzee

Past the house? It is unfamiliar. Also a guy said beyond the house. It is wrong. Beyond is behind of something not visible. Like beyond the culture. If we say beyond the visible like beyond the sword we wanna talk about something you won't notice and that thing is not visible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/beerzoe

'Beyond' is in no way limited to 'out of sight'. For example, "when I look out of my window, I can see the lake and beyond that, the mountains." It simply means 'on the other side of something', and while that can mean that it's not visible, it doesn't have to mean that.

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