"The men read the newspaper and the women eat an apple."

Translation:Léann na fir an nuachtán agus itheann na mná úll.

June 17, 2015

58 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pau_B

Bean is woman and mná is women, right? How come it's so different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Irregular nouns happen. (If bean is “woman”, why isn’t mná “womans”?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pau_B

I see, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeannette490296

The evolution of the plural form of ‘bean’ is actually regular. Over time, many pronunciation rules have changed the word and we end up with ‘mná’. We just have accept the plural as it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyanMoreno14

I'm guessing this is an apple each? Or are the women collectively eating a single apple. (In other words, is úll referring to each of the women in mná?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Your first guess is correct. In Irish (and in many other languages) if I have plural people (dogs, etc.) but a singular apple (bone, etc.), the default understanding is that it's one apiece.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tara-Yasmin

Is there a way to differentiate between eating one apiece and eating one collectively?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ciaranc13

When do you use na versus an?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mjoyxx

Na is the definite article for plurals; an is the definite article for singular nouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MegInAlaska

Ohhhh...I was so not getting that. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.o_

So is there some site with a pronunciation guide for every sound in Gaeilge? I'd rather not be going to forvo everytime I hear a new word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

If you can read the International Phonetic Alphabet, you can find the sounds in the Wikipedia article on Irish orthography.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolinguistical1

Is mná pronounced "m-naw" or "maw" or neither?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Pronunciations from the three major dialects can be heard here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaCa826187

When I've heard it it's always been mraw but I've only really heard Northern speakers. scilling's link is good and there is also a site called Forvo for native-speaker pronunciations in various languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

The vast majority of Irish speakers on Forvo aren't natives, however. So always take it with a grain of salt. The only native I know on there is Bríd Éilís


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alannahjjm

I'm a native speaker but I've never heard mraw, probably because I learned the standard Irish, in which it's pronounced mnaw, as opposed to any dialect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaCa826187

Really? I've always heard those 'n's pronounced as 'r's.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alannahjjm

Yeah I've never heard that ever and would be super confused! But maybe it's an Ulster Irish thing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

I think it's more that mnaw is a Munster thing -- maybe a school Irish thing, too. Most native speakers say mraw.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristyTS-2159

I'm missing something on the articles. Why is it "an nuachtán" and not "an úll"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

an is the singular definite article - "the"

nuachtán - "(a) newspaper", an nuachtán - "the newspaper"
úll - "(an) apple", an t-úll - "the apple"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristyTS-2159

Thank you. That makes sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheOneLandon

Why dont they introduce the plural form of apple instead of making a silly sentence like this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dim-ond-dysgwr

I don't think it's silly at all. While both sentences are ambiguous, I'd normally take "The women ate an apple" to mean that they ate an apple each, while "The women ate apples" would suggest that they each ate more than one apple.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

That is the assumption that a speaker of Irish would make.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tara-Yasmin

"Úlla", the plural form of "apple", was already introduced in the "Plurals" section.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Donailin

Im getting this sentence right (3 times now) but it keeps saying its incorrect and will not let me move on.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Nobody that is reading your comment here has any idea what you submitted, or what Duolingo's response was. The only people who will see your comment are other learners just like you.

If you want to tell Duolingo about a problem that you are having using the website or one of the various Duolingo apps, take a screenshot that demonstrates the problem, and submit a bug report with the screenshot and a detailed description of the version of Duolingo that you are using (iphone app, android app, website, the web browser you use, etc).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dayvid539982

Says correct but is in red incorrect box


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

Sentence Discussions are a user-to-user forum. Nobody reading your comment has any way of knowing what you submitted, or what you are seeing on your screen. If you think that Duolingo is malfunctioning, take a screenshot that demonstrates the problem and submit a bug report.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spaice

Can 'agus' not be interchanged with 'is'? I have seen it shortened as such before (certainly in Scottish Gaelic at least - maybe it doesn't work the same with Irish).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alannahjjm

In school in Ireland it's learned as "agus" initially, then they slowly sneakily just start using is or 's because it's more fluent, easier to say / write, etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NakamuraMondo

is the "is" a contraction of "agus" then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ScoutGunsch

I've had this question three times in this lesson and each time I haven't been able to complete the sentence because there have been words missing from the selection at the bottom. It's been a different word each time but it prevents me from getting this question right. WTH, Duo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

This is a long-standing bug in Duolingo. You should take a screenshot that demonstrates the problem, and submit a bug report with the screenshot and a detailed description of the version of Duolingo that you are using (iphone app, android app, website, the web browser you use, etc).

You may be able to work around the issue by using the "zoom" feature in your browser to zoom out to 80% or 65%, or you can click on "Use the keyboard" and type the answer in instead of selecting from tiles.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tristan345607

How can I know when to select "na" or "an"? They both mean "the",right? So what's the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

an is singular, na is plural.

an fear - "the man"
na fir - "the men"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chardayecastel

I just want to be sure, is 'an' for singular nouns and 'na' for plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

Yes, in the nominative/accusative case. as you learn more Irish, you will be introduced to another case (genitive) where feminine singular nouns also use 'na.'


[deactivated user]

    So 'an' means 'the', so why does 'an nuachtán' mean 'the newspaper' yet 'an úll' doesn't mean 'the apple'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

    The exercise asks you to translate "an apple", not "the apple".

    It is also the case that masculine nouns that start with a vowel get a t-prefix after the singular definite article an (in the nominative case), so you get an t-úll (masculine) but an ubh (feminine).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LUKELANGFO1

    This is a very long sentence. It should be broken up in pieces and then put together


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephanyKa882142

    I don't see how i could have typos as i had to put the words in the right order which you supplied


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

    Sorry, Stephanie, no one on this forum can see which words you selected. Sometimes there are two similar words (like úll and húll or úlla) given. Could it be something like that?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NakamuraMondo

    definitely time to sleep -_-; i just typed "ólann na fir an nuachtán" lol


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Galeyvsgv

    Well, I chose two tranlations for.

    The men read the newspaper and the women eat an apple

    Léann na fir an nuachtán is itheann na mná úll and Léann na fir an nuachtán agus itheann na mná úll

    The system counted it wrong because it only wanted the second but last I knew "is" is a short version of "agus". So why is it wrong that I chose both?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

    Probably because Duolingo doesn't know that you know that! 'Is' is a short version of 'agus,' but tbh it looks a little weird to write it in the middle of a normal (non-poetic) sentence. Kind of like answering the question 'Who's there?' with 'It is I, and I shall not stir from here until I shall speak with thy master. ) There's nothing grammatically wrong with my answer, but I wouldn't teach someone to talk like that. (Okay, maybe 'thy' is obsolete!)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

    na is the plural definite article (like "los" or "las" in Spanish).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcus637887

    I kniw the words but i keep getting the order mixed up


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shaylla789094

    I still don't understand how to word it like where to pit everything


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cait48

    In this sentence, you have two mini-sentences joined by 'and.' [The men read the newspaper] and [the women eat an apple]. You do each mini-sentence as though it were a sentence on its own.

    Irish is called a VSO language because the normal word order in a sentence is Verb (shows doing or being) Subject (shows who/what is doing the verb) Object (shows who/what the action is being done to -- should really be called Rest of the Sentence).

    So let's put the English words into the Irish word order:

    (read-the men-the newspaper) and (eat-the women- an apple)

    Now change the words to Irish:

    (léann-na fir-an nuachtán) agus (itheann-na mná-úll)

    or

    Léann na fir an nuachtán agus itheann na mná úll.

    I hope that answers your question.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caitriona_21

    How come, we dont say an ull, but we say an nuactan?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    "the newspaper" - an nuachtán
    "an apple" - úll

    Irish doesn't have an indefinite article ("a" or "an" in English).

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