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  5. "Esperanto havas nur du kazoj…

"Esperanto havas nur du kazojn."

Translation:Esperanto has only two cases.

June 20, 2015

46 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erven.R

And I am thankful for that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

And one of them used to be full of beer, before that bear came by.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiNewt

Dude, what's your obsession with bears and beer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Ask the owl.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ged92781

"Mr Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie-roll center of a tootsie-pop?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Donas «ged9281» poentojn.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rekkofolis

Technically, esperanto does have a dative and genitive case, but they don't have affixes. They use "al" and "de la". But that's just my linguistic nerdiness coming out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vortarulo

Actually, no. If they don't have affixes, you don't call them cases in linguistics.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lazar.ljubenovic

So why is nominative a case then, by that definition? Is -o treated as "nominative case noun affix"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vortarulo

Good point, I forgot to mention that. The nominative is unmarked in Esperanto, but it stands in opposition to the only marked case, the accusative (in -n), and so it is treated as a case, too. While most languages don't mark the nominative, as it is a kind of default case, some actually do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaribbeanMax

Nominative is a case because it hasn't got any "general" affix. So that's the way you'll find the word in the dictionary.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rekkofolis

Oh, I seem to have been mistaken. I thought they didn't need to have affixes, but I think there still is a genitive case as seen with the possessive pronoun's (mia, lia, via, etc) and the genitive correlatives (kies, ties, etc).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vortarulo

Kies etc. could indeed be called genitives, probably, although I'd probably just treat them as "possessive interrogative/relative/... pronouns". But mia etc. are adjectives, not genitive nouns. Also in German and English "my" and "mein" are treated as adjectives, not as genitive. You can see that they can receive the accusative ending.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

Not so much anymore. They're both studied under the same subject of case grammar, and especially in English-language discussion of Japanese grammar "case particle" and "postposition" are used interchangably.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That is how it is described in the Fundamento, but that seems a German way of looking at it.

Why not also say that it has an instrumental case (kun), an ablative case (also with de), an inessive-illative case (en), a terminative case (ĝis), ....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiNewt

This is slightly off topic...but would the Welsh mutations count as cases or not? After all, a case can have multiple uses, and not all nouns have to have separate forms for all cases...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I would say no - I think it's more in the same category of sound assimilation as the variation between "a" and "an" in English depending on the following sound.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/benulo

They are not inflected cases, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vortarulo

You're right. Esperanto has two cases, not more. What counts is the inflection. Otherwise Esperanto would have dozens of cases, one for every proposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/seancenarox

I'm confused. What are the cases?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

They're nominative and accusative (nominativo kaj akuzativo).

Nominative is the basic form, accusative has an -n at the end.

La granda kato vidas la belan hundon. -- la granda kato is in the nominative case, la belan hundon is in the accusative case in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Zorua-

The first thing that popped into my mind when I saw this sentence was "Esperanto detective agency".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Kial la anglalingvanoj neniam prenas iliajn kazojn al ni?

Estas, vere malkomprenebla. Eble la ĉinalingvanoj, ĉu?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rapn21

I thought the accusative was the only one. What's the second?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xigoi

Actually, I would like genitive and dative to have a suffix instead of having "de" and "al" everywhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexeiNewt

Go learn Hungarian if you like cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lea8D

Tre malĝentila.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xigoi

My native (Czech) has seven of them so I have enough, I just don't like seeing "de" and "al" everywhere. Also the "de" needlessly enforces word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

I agree. It's obviously too fundamental to change (much too fundamental), but it really wouldn't make the language too much more difficult. Imagine:

-es/-esi for the genitive and -od/-ojd for the dative.

And a correlative case (kiele...) for method-how distinct from manner/degree-how (kiel).

  • Pardonu min, ĉu bonvolu diri mod, kiele atingi la stacion?

  • La grupo, kiod li apartenas, kunsidos morgaŭ.

  • Ŝi tiris la levilon kaj tiele ŝtopis la alfluantan akvon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xigoi

I think the ending -o shouldn't be changed. What about -oŝ or -of?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cambarellus

I know I'm replying to an old comment but; Esperanto was designed to be simple. Extra cases make it harder for some people to learn. "De" and "Al" are a lot easier to learn for people from native languages that are not already abundant with different cases.

Your native language is one with many cases, which is probably why you would prefer Esperanto to have more. (It seems more natural to you.) For me, I am glad there are only two.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RandomCanadian12

germana kazoj ankoraux donas al mi koŝmarojn


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Do prefere ne lernu la hungaran nek la finnan :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Yes, grammatical cases. The two cases of Esperanto are nominative and accusative.

English pronouns also have two cases (e.g. "he" versus "him"); I've heard those cases called "subjective" and "objective" or "nominative" and "accusative".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamScott794079

Thanks! (FSM, save our holy language, esperanto


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dudeski123

And I miss the dative and genitive. And would like to add that the adverb functions much like an instrumental and locative case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wer_

This sentence is a lie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Why? What do you think is wrong about it? How many cases do you think Esperanto has?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wer_

Ok, here is my point: -Mi legas libroN (accusative) -Mi helpas viN (dative) -Mi metas panon en la skatoloN (genitive, locative or adverbial i guess?) Also on wikipedia they say pronouns have some genitive attributes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vangelion

"Mi putas panon..." Did you mean to write "metas"? "putas" would mean something like "make a well".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wer_

yeah thanks, it auto-corrected me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vortarulo

That's one case, though. The accusative. Cases aren't counted by what functions they perform, but by their forms. So Esperanto has 2 cases: the one without ending, and the one with the -n at the end. By convention these are called nominative and accusative.

Mi helpas vin is not a dative case, it's accusative. You could argue that Mi donas la libron AL VI uses the dative case, but that's not a case. It's a prepositional phrase.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wer_

If you are looking at it this way and apply this logic, then I agree with you, also yes prepositions only form the cases but are not counted as ones. But you can also say English has one case even though it does not have any and there are many languages in which various cases have the same ending yet are a different one. On Wikipedia i have found ''[Esperanto has] two cases nominative/oblique and accusative/allative, [...] the adjectival form of personal pronouns behaves like a genitive case."

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