"Frateco estas la spirito de Esperanto."

Translation:Brotherhood is the spirit of Esperanto.

June 20, 2015

22 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

I wonder what word those who are whining about Frateco would recommend to replace it? Complaining without offering a solution is, after all, ultimately whining.

When Zamenhof first started working on this language most women in the world had not even the right to vote. Esperantists, I understand, were on the forefront of the suffrage movement in Europe. Many of the great early Esperantists, even up to today, have been female. Do they complain about brotherhood? If they need something specific for women they use fratineco or gefrateco but accept that some concepts transcend mere gender or material significance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cocio_16

Well... To me, every esperanto word should be gender neutral, except when specified otherwise. Now we only need a masculine equivalent of "ino". Maybe "viro" could do the job? Fratviro ?

To me, this is the only necessary reform of esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

It's not acceptable to the Owl. And using it on FB might get you corrected a few dozen times.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tuxayo
  • 2207

Of course it's not an accepted reform. Is there an organization in charge of the language were one could follow the discussions about such proposals?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Try checking with: http://www.akademio-de-esperanto.org
The Akademio de Esperanto also has a wiki page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tuxayo
  • 2207

Now I learned that they seem to reflect usage rather than push new reforms. Using a proposed reform is a way of try to get is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Vir- as an affix, already exists. So instead of fratviro (Sibling man) you would have virfrato (male sibling).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cocio_16

But to use "vir" as an affix while "in" is a suffix makes an irregularity. And we should avoid irregularities.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

It is what Zamenhof wrote in the Unua Libreto http://www.genekeyes.com/Dr_Esperanto.html , and the Fundamento de Esperanto. I can't say that it's necessarily an irregularity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

If the term frateco angers you so much, then you might consider replacing it with homareco.

I do promise you that placing vir- at the ends of words will not be understood, or will create confusion, or will end in people laughing at you. We have been using terms like virbovo and virkoko and virwhatever since the 1880's.

Now, what do you suggest we do about ge- being a prefix?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tuxayo
  • 2207

Complaining without offering a solution is, after all, ultimately whining.

Devus esti akceptebla povi paroli pri problemo eĉ sen havi solvproponon. It should be acceptable to talk about an problem even without having a proposal to solve it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

Gefrateco. "Frato" estas nomo defaŭlte vira.

Jes, viroj daŭre kontribuas (eble nevolante, sed ja kontribuas) al la problemo, ke virinoj ne estas same oftaj ol viroj en la esperantujo. Ili tion faris per manko zorgi pri ĉu ili esceptas virinojn ĉu ne.

Ni ja rimarkas la manko zorgi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Gefrateco mi povas akcepti. Ankaŭ, kompreneble, multaj da Esperantistoj. Ja la vorto estas in mia unua posto ĉi tie

La vorto kiun mi nun pripensis, estas homaranismo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/babelpescado

It's sexist the same way a 'fraternity' can be co-ed, unfortunately.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dema90

well, simple solution, I guess:

Gefrateco estas la spirito de Esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/realfoodman

Mi pensis, ke Duo estis la spirito de Esperanto.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Ne, nur estas lernilo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rex604606

Frateco estas la spirito de Esperanto. END OF DISCUSSION!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Zamenhoff also presented us with the term homaranismo a belief I often describe as People is people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rex604606

Instead of "brotherhood" as translation for "frateco" let's try "FRATERNITY"; maybe that would appease the anti-sexism crowd.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredCapp

Some people will find something to disagree with, regardless. But fraternity is one definition of frateco, so no probs.

As I said 6 years ago, complaining without offering solutions is simply whining, thanks for trying to think of a solution.

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