"She herself wanted them to help each other."

Translation:Ŝi mem volis, ke ili helpu sin reciproke.

June 28, 2015

19 Comments
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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oddstray

Why "helpu" and not "helpus"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Koneli

"helpu" means "she wants this". -u is for a wish or an order (imperative)

"helpus" would mean "she would want this, but it is not possible". (I am not sure about the grammatical term: subjunctive, conditional mood, irrealis (?). But in Esperanto -us is unrealistic. )

The difficulty may be, that in some languages this second form is used to wish polite (could, would).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Druif

What an inimitable complex phrase! Does anyone say this in real life?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I think most people say "unu la alian" (...ke ili helpu unu la alian).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaerivus

Could I interchangeably say "... ke ili helpu unu la alian" as in a previous example?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

See comment from mizinamo to Druif from 5 years ago.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/629.ucql9QLTttbE

Why is it helpu and not helpi?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

This is the jussive -u, expressing "a world as it should be", that you often find after words such as deziri or voli. Some languages would use the subjunctive here.

You can't have helpi because there is a subject ("ili"); and you can't use the English accusative-with-infinitive construction where the subject of the verb turns into the object of "want" and the verb stays in the infinitive since that's an English speciality.

And even in English it only works with a few verb (want is the only one I can think of now). Compare situations such as "know" -- you would say "I know that they help one another" and not (usually) "I know them to help one another", and with "see", "I see them to help one another" is not possible at all and it has to be "I see that they help one another". In Esperanto, you have to use this "that" construction also with "want".

So the question is not helpu vs. helpi but helpu vs. helpas, and here the answer is because it's not something that is actually happening but something that is wished for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/camilo.oo

i think that is imperative


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/camilo.oo

what is the difference between mem and sin


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thutson

Since the "sin" is here, is the "reciproke" really necessary?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Since the "sin" is here, is the "reciproke" really necessary?

It clarifies that it's "each other" and not "themselves".

That is, A helps B and B helps A -- not A helps A and B helps B.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

And also not that A and B as a group help A and B as a group.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaerivus

Is the "sin" not ambiguous here? The subject, after all, is ŝi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

The subject, after all, is ŝi.

Eh? The subject of ili helpu is ili, not ŝi.

sin is part of the subordinate clause ke ili helpu sin reciproke and refers to the subject of that clause, not to the subject of the main clause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaerivus

Thanks for teaching me about clauses.

Personally I could've done without the "Eh?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Thanks for the feedback. It seemed obvious to me that there were two verbs and two subjects but perhaps not so obvious to others.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

No, not obvious to others. I see similar questions all the time.

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