https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrad2u

ils vs. il

I can't hear the difference, between: Est-ce qu'ils mangent avec les filles ?

and

Est-ce qu'il mange avec les filles ?

How am I to know on these tests which one I'm dealing with? I'm sure context will work in real life, but it seems that it should be ambiguous at least here.

May 19, 2012

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sc_acc

They need to crowdsource audio recording (only native speakers). So, native speakers of French, using duolingo to learn english, could also get skill points in a different track by recording phrases for the French lessons (akin to Forvo.com).

July 13, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dezchevy

Except that French learners of English would be saying English words, not their native tongue.

August 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rwstandridge

I don't think they sound different at all. There are at least three discussions on this in the questions. The last time I got this wrong in a question, I provided the feedback that both answers should be accepted. I got a response that "we are working on it."

I assumed this would be like the "translate to english" questions and they would just add an additional acceptable answer. They may be trying to do something more complicated to deal with when these do sound different, and when they don't.

To summarize, many french words contain "disappearing sounds" which are only pronounced if the next sound is a vowel. This is called French Liaison:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaison_(French)

So, if you are lucky and either the word following "ils" starts with a vowel, or the word following "mangent" starts with a vowel, you will hear either a "z" or a "t" and there is your clue. Check out this example of (click the little speaker button at the bottom right of the french):

They stop the car. He stops the car:

http://bit.ly/JnNt4r

Woot! You can hear a "z" at the end of "Ils".

So, I wanted to answer your question "you should hear a 't' sound at the end of mangent if it is followed by 'avec.'" Unfortunately not:

http://bit.ly/KBG54I

Sounds the same to me. So either this is a bug in the text-to-speach or it isn't pronounced in this environment for some reason. I am assured by native speakers that the liaison rules aren't always followed. Honestly I don't think native speakers are the best authorities on this though: I don't think they have any idea when their brains automatically follow these rules.

In any case, there are sentence you can construct that sound identical and duolingo needs to accept both.

May 19, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drockalgzemoser

I hear the t at the end of mangent on the recording... it's brief, though.

December 30, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aybarasan

Yes, it's very difficult for english speakers to hear the subtle differences in the endings, but it is there. It's extra difficult with the text-to-speech. Unfortunately part of the language.

For some more pronounciation fun, try to tell the difference between j'ai and j'aie or parlé and parlais.

June 7, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ozdoc

I have always been taught that they sound exactly the same so unless there is context or liaison with a following word then both should be considered correct on duolingo. It seems, from reading comments elsewhere on this site that the Quebecois do make a slight sound distinction in contrast to (no offence intended) proper French.

June 27, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rafaelh.souza

I asked a native French speaker about the difference between "mange" and "mangent", and they said there is none. What may have happened is that the pronunciation of "mange" and "mangent" were different some time ago but nowadays, in metropolitan French (this is the kind of French used by Duolingo, I guess), they are the same. I may be wrong. What do you think?

November 1, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gurple

There is a small difference, and you can hear it on duolingo, but it's hard. The 'ge' in mangent is pronounced more than in mange, almost like mangent is two syllables. We used to be tested on this in high school french, with no context to tell them apart.

May 19, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gersois

I listened to this one again and again and there was no perceptible difference. Since many French can barely work out what people from other French regions are saying, it's entirely up to how clearly the speaker enunciates.

It would be interesting to see how people went being blind-tested against the recorded pronunciations without knowing what they were "supposed" to be hearing.

July 1, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aoming

There is absolutely no difference in pronounciation between "il" and "ils".. except when there is liaison as rwstandridge explained..

July 2, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alanakate

@aybarasan and @gurple I agree. The difference is there, but is fiendishly subtle. Between "mange" and "mangent": The length of time that it takes to say "mangent" is ever so slightly longer than the time it takes to say "mange", and the "g" in "mangent" is slightly more audible. There is a slight pause on the "g" in "mangent" (more like "mange-uh" with the "uh" being very subtle).

July 7, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mforster1uk

Yes, but it's perfectly acceptable to pronounce mange as "mange-uh" too.

May 9, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isiik

I agree with gurple. For me, there is a slight difference:

Ils mangent - the "g" is quite a prominent sound: "zh" or "ž" as if with an accent at the end "ž!" Il mange - here the "g" is weaker, more like "sh" or "š"

I might be wrong but that's what I personally hear.

July 25, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahBussineau

At my school, we learned that there is no pronunciation difference between the je, tu, il/elle/on, and ils/elles forms of regular "er" verbs. You're not supposed to hear a difference. It can be frustrating at times, but at least we have a few other hearts if we are wrong!

June 19, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mforster1uk

Even in the interrogative there's no different in pronunciation. "Mange-t-il?" and "Mangent-ils?" are pronounced exactly the same, as are "Mange-t-elle?" and "Mangent-elles?"

June 19, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/papa.pence

no gays

July 19, 2018
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