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"Will you let her go with her friends?"

Translation:Sen onun arkadaşlarıyla gitmesine izin verecek misin?

July 12, 2015

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmFilip

This lesson ist just too difficult! You are saying yourself in the introduction, that the gerund is one of the most difficult things to master in the Turkish language. Rather than helping us along with simple phrases, so we can learn how to use and form the gerund, we have to construct very complex sentences right from the start. I never manage and find it very frustrating. Luckily, the mobile app is much easier to handle and I tend to do the difficult lessons by app - with the effect that I'm not really learning :-( Overall, Duolingo is great and I have recommended to quite a number of my friends, but some lessons are really horrible, and this is one of them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

the problem is you cannot really form simple sentences with gerunds. this sentence could only be simpler as "Sen onun gitmesine izin verecek misin?" - which is not so much easier. Unfortunately for some structures there are not really easy ways to teach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hananalmor1

This lesson should have moved to a much later stage I suggest please try to consider this suggestion. Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmFilip

Well, there are plenty of simpler sentences in the lesson, such as "senin sevmeni istiyorum" - but these sentences are not being used for translation into Turkish, which of course are the most challenging exercises. For translation we ended up having the complicated ones like above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

we cannot choose which sentences are chosen for what kind of exercises, it is probably random, or maybe there is an algorithm created by the engineers


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RumenT

What is specifically hard for you? I could try to help with more examples and grammar tips.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmFilip

It is just the sentences being very complex. When something new and complicated is being introduced it would be easier to have a simple phrase where you can focus on the new thing. Look at the phrase we are discussing here. It has a very complex verbal construction (" to let someone go" is challenging even without a gerund) plus it is a question. And the others sentences I had to translate where equally difficult. This is what I found frustrating.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RumenT

Oh, I definitely agree that sometimes the Duolingo lessons are not enough to fully grasp certain aspects of Turkish.

One thing I could do is give you some resources.

If you want to search for a specific word or grammatical structure, you could use Tatoeba. It's a free site that allows you to search for translated sentences, for example between English and Turkish.

You could search for something like "*mesine" or "*masına" and get a lot of example sentences. Don't forget that the sentences are added by users and may be wrong. Overall I've found the quality quite satisfactory.

On the first page you have "Gitmesine izin ver." = "Let him/her go.". It's much less complicated than the Duolingo sentence. I hope it helps. There are 979 sentences with "*mesine" and 1157 with "*masına".

Check out this link: http://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/articles/show/text-search# so you know how to search efficiently.

Another resource I highly recommend is the grammar book "Turkish: A Comprehensive Grammar". If you can't find it, message me so I can send it to you. You might find it too complex if you aren't familiar with some linguistic terms, but with a little practice it shouldn't be hard to navigate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmFilip

Thanks, I will try that out. May be my problem is that I had hoped to be able to learn Turkish just using duolingo, without having to add further ressources.:-/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RumenT

That's just not going to work. Duolingo offers a very limited course, both regarding vocabulary and grammar. It's intended as an introductory course only. Sadly there aren't any other sites that I know of that offer more comprehensive courses structured similarly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmFilip

But thanks for your offer. I appreciate that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MouhBeiraq

Can someone please break down "gitmesine" for me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bknckn

gitmek = the infinitive verb form "TO GO"

gitme = the gerund verb form "GOING"

gitme-si = adding the 3rd person possessive ending "HER GOING"

gitme-si-n- = adding the buffer consonant -n-. This is used when a noun has more than one suffix added on. (Remember, the gerund form of a verb acts grammatically like a noun--this is true in English too.) We already have the suffix -si and we are about to add another one, so the -n- goes in between

gitme-si-n-e = adding the dative suffix -a/e, "TO HER GOING." In the context of the sentence, this is because the expression is more literally "Will you give [sen ... verecek misin] permission [izin] to her going [gitmesine] with her friends [onun arkadaşlarıyla]"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MouhBeiraq

Thank you so much for this much-needed breakdown! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bellapiko

Thanks invisibleteacup that has helped me too as can't get my brain round the gerund endings


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moonpanther

Thank you very much, invisibleteacup, both for the suffix breakdown and the idiomatic expressions. I find that the lessons sometimes really lack good explanations for them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AyyashElmota

one question though, why is the buffer "n" and sometimes it is "y"? I expected this to be gitmesiye, is there a rule?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohammadSakhaee

Awesome! I wish there were some tips in turkish lessons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SheridanZhoy

In the "Tıps & Notes" for Possessives, it says, "If you add a case to a noun with the 3rd person possessive suffix, it will always have a buffer -n-."

Arkadaşları has the possessive suffix, but it is given the buffer -y- before the instrumental case suffix. Is the instrumental case an exception to the rule?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Yes, and this is covered a bit in the Instrumental case notes I believe :) (and this is one of the many reasons why the Instrumental may not be a case at all)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shihaodu

Very helpful! Çok teşekkürler!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danikaadams

This is very helpful -- but it is definitely not covered in the instrumental case notes. That would be a great place for it to be added!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sotirakis1

Think of a sentence within a sentence. For example 'do you (by any chance) know?'. Then break it down. Sen (onun arkadaşlarıyla gitmesine) izin verecek misin? What we are not yet accustomed to is sound punctuation. It helps to break up the sentence when you listen. When we translate it, it is just one noise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stergi3

Really difficult. I have to memorize it. But this is not effective learning. Moreover English is not my native language. Double difficulty. :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SheridanZhoy

Just out of curiosity, could you say, "onun onun arkadaşlarıyla gitmesi" (her going with her friends)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

If "her" refers to the same person, it is better to use "kendi" here :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SheridanZhoy

Ah, gotcha. So: "Sen onun kendi arkadaşlarıyla gitmesine izin verecek misin?" Right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahGkani

I am not sure about the ''ı'' in arkadaşlarıyla. I understand the plural "lar and instrumental "yla", but "ı" what does it stand for?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sotirakis1

Arkadaşlarıyla= ‘with the friends’. But ‘on-un’ is in front, so the ‘ı’ becomes ‘her/his’ because of the ‘un’, to show that ‘the friends’ now becomes ‘her friends’. Onun arkadaşlarıyla=With her friends.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahGkani

Thank you very much for your answer. But I still don't get it :(. "ı" is used to form the accucative? why? "Arkadaşları" is not a specific direct object here. Or, it is?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_goforit

arkadaşlar = (the) friends
onun arkadaşları = her / his friends
You are right there is no accusaative case here. The 'ı' of 'arkadaşları' belongs to 'onun', it's the possessive form.
E.g.
onun arabası = her / his car
annem arabası = my mother's car (genitive/possessive construction)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarahGkani

Thank you! I understand it now! "ı" ıs possessıve suffıx because onun is in genitive case. That makes perfect sense and I feel bad, I haven't realised earlier


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sotirakis1

We are all in the same boat:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Claudia886817

It's a bit offtopic, but I would be interested to know whether native speakers can understand sentences that are completely wrong? In Germany we mostly understand sentences where everything is grammatically wrong, what can be done wrong. Would anyone understand the following sentence: "Onu arkadaşlar ile gitmesi için izin vereceksin mi?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AyyashElmota

I just came to Turkey, and the myth that Turkish people cannot fill in the gaps well, is just a myth, I get by with absolute rubbish :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peyman760585

What is instrumental case suffix?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bellapiko

I never heard of instrumental case suffix either - does anybody know? I still find gerunds hard to figure out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_goforit

Instrumental case suffix is the one which means 'with':
- (y) le
- (y) la

In the above mentioned sentence it is:
onun arkadaşlarıyla = with her friends


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Biljana45383

Biljana Thank you so much for this breakdown! It is very useful for me, and I hope for everyone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ravshan42

Can I omit"sen" in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/danikaadams

Yes, and onun as well. Neither of the personal pronouns is necessary except for emphasis and clarity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PranaviAVS

Why is this sentence wrong? Onun arkadaşlar ile gitmesine izin verecek misin?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Claudia886817

Maybe it is because "arkadaşlarıyla" = "arkadaşları ile"? I'm not sure, I'm only a beginner.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PranaviAVS

Oh yes. Maybe. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna212535

Why gitmesinE, nor gitmesinİ? Isn't is not an object?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariane584083

Anna, the verb "izin vermek"="to give permission" or "to let" is a transitive verb used with the dative case in "birinE izin vermek"="to give permission TO someone, to let someone". I have a little ASSIMIL Turkish dictionary where i can find the use of each verb. Very usefull. I don't know where to find that online.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helen12103

doesn't 'izin' mean permission - if so shouldn't the English translation be 'have you given her your permission to go with the friends'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariane584083

Helen, why to do complicated when it can be simple? Duolingo gives us a simple, ligth, fluid translation. Don't you think?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dragonrykr

What the... What is this sentence?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jack380206

My answer should be correct as well. (Sen - misin or siz-misiniz combination) so what's wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zamzamx

Mind you it's only level 2. Move this to a higher level.

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