"Non siamo mai vissuti in città."

Translation:We have never lived in the city.

October 14, 2013

38 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kbrimington

Barron's 501 Italian Verbs conjugates the past participle of vivere as "abbiamo vissuto". Here, we have it rendered as "siamo vissuti". Will someone help this complete novice understand which to use?

October 14, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

Sometimes "vivere" is a transitive verb (i.e., has a direct object) and then the right auxiliary is "avere". When it is intransitive, the right auxiliary is "essere" usually. There are a few controversial cases where "avere" is used with the intransitive also. http://www.wordreference.com/iten/vivere

October 14, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kbrimington

Thank you. So help me understand. "We have never lived in the city" would use "siamo", as in this sentence, but "We have never lived here" would use "abbiamo", as in "Non abbiamo mai vissuti qui", or am I misunderstanding transitive and intransitive verbs?

October 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

Those are both transitive uses of the verb. I would say "non siamo mai vissuti qui (or in citta')". A transitive use would be (according to my reference book) Ha vissuto tante brutte esperienze "He's been through so many nasty experiences".

October 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kbrimington

I expect this will take me a while to get used to. Thank you for your help!

October 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CeciM

a hint that really helps me to know wether to use avere or essere is to know (that besides reflexives) most of the verbs that describes states, or changes between states, or remaining in state, or movement from one to another are with essere: crescere / diminuire nascere / morire
ingrassare / dimagrire
peggiorare / migliorare
cominciare , iniziare / terminare cambiare , riuscire
diventare, invecchiare (envejecer). sorgere, tramontare

<pre>parere, sembrare piacere / dispiacere costar , valere rimanere, stare partire, andare, venire, arrivare salire, scendere, cadere entrare, uscire </pre>

hope it helps :)

March 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/indritana

Viaggiatore, didn't you make a mistake in your first sentence? I think you meant to say 'these are both intransitive uses of the verb'. That's very confusing for someone who's not sure what transitive and intransitive mean.

April 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dave-ashby

I am completely confused by this translation and the answers given so far. My understanding is that "I have lived here" and "I have lived in the city" are both transitive, so surely should use 'abbiamo'. As kbrimington says, there is another example in Duolingo "Non abbiamo vissuto qui...". So isn't the translation here incorrect? Google Translate also uses 'abbiamo' here.

February 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

Besides whether it's ‘abbiamo’ or ‘siamo’, note that you don't decline the participle after ‘abbiamo’, so it would be ‘abbiamo mai vissuto [direct object]’.

March 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnovinc

When you're talking about those controversial cases do you mean: camminare, correre, visitare, viaggiare ? (to walk, run, visit, travel)

http://www.oneworlditaliano.com/english/italian-grammar/italian-auxiliaries.htm

October 14, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

I was talking about the one verb vivere, as I said.

October 14, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dnovinc

list of verbs that may be transitive and intransitive: http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare147b.htm

October 14, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madopa

I was wondering too...

November 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill98991

It is interesting that Barron's 501 uses hanno vissuto on the conjugation page but on the next page an example used is, "Lor sono vissuti in Italia per cinque anni." "They lived in Italy for five years." This is consistent with what Viggiatore says below.

June 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grasshopher

without any article, how do you know it is "the city" and not "a city"?

January 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CeciM

"a city" would be "in una città". But "in città" is the expression used to mean "in the city", that part of the region, and for example, not in the country.

March 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

However "in a city" is accepted here.

January 22, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sarah1104

do you think it's hopeless for me to ever learn this (or any) language if I can't understand the concepts of transitive verbs, pronouns etc...? I don't even mean this in jest, I don't understand these concepts at all. Even when I try to read about the comparative concept in english (so I can understand it as it relates to the english language and then apply) I still have no idea.

February 23, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PattyinRoma

The positive thing is most people learn a language as a child though just listening and repeating (without understanding grammar). Keep listening and repeating so you learn what 'feels right'. Repeat repeat repeat. :)

March 2, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Karmaria

It is not hopeless! I had a lot of problems with this myself because parts of speech were things I learned when I was much younger and as English speakers we don't necessarily think about how we're using them when speaking/writing. In learning Italian, I've had to relearn these things. Just take it step by step. Sometimes you pick up on rules by seeing how some things work together. The comments here definitely help!

April 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lynnich

I have a really good book called; "English Grammar for students of Italian" by Sergio Adorni and Karen Primorac . In the contents it has chapters called, for example ;" What is a noun?' "What are objects?" (this is where transitive and intransitive verbs are explained) right up to "What are positive and negative indefinites? (whatever the hell they are, haven't read that bit yet!) It just explains what is meant in a simple way with examples that are easy to understand. I bought it second hand from Abe Books and it has helped me a lot, I don't sit down and read it, but if I can't understand something I look in the book and find the explanation of how it is in English and how it correlates with Italian. Don't be too discouraged, it takes children years to learn to speak their parents language and you obviously managed that, so it will make sense eventually!

November 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

You learnt English as a baby without understanding any of this stuff. Knowing it is helpful, because then you can have things explained using those concepts. But it's not necessary; you can still practice and practice until the rules are internalized, whether or not you've ever learnt them explicitly. And you have to practice anyway to get fluent!

March 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaNordin

I translated as: We haven't ever lived in the city. I got it wrong. I don't know why this can't be accepted?

January 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/01nick1988

Your translation is valid, but it'd be more normal in English to say 'we've never' rather than 'we haven't ever'. Mostly because English is lazy

February 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lloydo3000

Also keep in mind that when you abbreviate something, it is given less emphasis. Both are correct, but I would say 'We haven't ever' is more emphatic.

February 12, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leigh8724

Me too and I was wondering the same thing. I reported it.

December 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V_era

"We have never lived in city" is not accepted. DL says that i need indefinite article. "In A city". So, there is no difference A or THE ?

May 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

If we are only girls, would we say "visute" instead of visuti (and is this also used for third person plural?)?

August 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanKing1

If the verb is "siamo", yes, it would be "vissuti", with two S's, because a single S would make the word sound different(ly).

March 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

yes, i see, grazie

March 16, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pat590727

'città' is used for both town and city -- you can't distinguish in Italian (indeed, the old English distinction, that a city has to have a cathedral, is now obsolete). If, Duolino, you can tell me how to say 'we have never lived in the town', then you are entitled to mark my answer wrong. Until then . . .

July 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hurleyroses

"We haven't ever lived in the city" should be accepted.

March 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yanik1957

why do we need the word non here? can't we say: siamo mai vissuti in citta?

November 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margaret_S

That would mean: Have we ever lived in the city?

April 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flysalot

Double negatives, which are forbidden in English, are a must in Italian.

June 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yanik1957

But double negative doesn't mean a positive statement?

June 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flysalot

No, what I meant is that, in English, using 2 negative words in a sentence is frowned upon and we tell students that they have just said the opposite of what they meant. In Italian and French you must have both words: 'non' and 'mai' like 'ne ---pas' in French.

June 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuliaJulia164725

Why does 'mai' go after 'siamo' and not after 'vissuti'? I thought 'mai' is always placed after the verb.

October 12, 2019
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