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  5. "Toi et moi sommes riches."

"Toi et moi sommes riches."

Translation:You and I are rich.

December 30, 2012

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iestuardoc

Is it correct to say "tu" instead of "toi"? What's the difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"Tu" and "je" are only used as single subjects of a verb, that is why. So you can't say "tu et je sommes riches".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlQuzMar

To clarify things further, there's more than one personal pronouns in the sentence, in which case you should always use stressed pronouns.

"Je suis riche" "Moi et toi, nous sommes riches."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flibblez

True, true I <3 French


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pshawfr

Shouldn't this be "Toi et moi, nous sommes riches." Otherwise this sentence is without a proper subject.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

The proper subjects are "toi" and "moi". You may or may not reinforce them with a comma and adding "nous", but it works perfectly with just "toi et moi sommes...".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielOwen

I completely agree. I made a similar comment elsewhere.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nathanlesage

Isn't it possible, at least in English to translate this (more formal, yes) with an additional "we"? Or would that go completely wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

It would be emphatic in French as well: toi et moi, nous sommes riches - you and I, we are rich


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisa.skill

I don't quite understand the stressed pronouns. I get why it's toi, as tu can't be used on it's own but then why wouldn't it be "toi and je sommes riches"? Just because it would then be an incorrect conjugation for je?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Stressed pronouns are required for: je = moi, tu = toi, il = lui, ils = eux.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pshawfr

Toi and moi are not subject pronouns. I don't see how "toi et moi" can be the subject of a sentence. I still maintain that correct grammar means you have to use "nous" in addition to "toi et moi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

Sorry to contradict you again, but "toi" and "moi" are stressed pronouns and in this sentence those two persons are declared as rich, so they are subject of verb "sommes". The form "sommes (=nous) comes from the fact that when you add yourself to one or several persons, you consider that group including you as "nous"/we.

It would be the same if you said "Mary and Peter are rich", you would not need to add "they" in the middle: "Mary et Pierre sont riches".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pshawfr

What do you mean by 'stressed pronouns'? Is it acceptable in French to say "toi es riche" because 'toi' is a stressed pronoun?

I consulted a textbook "Grammaire Progressive du Francais", published by CLE International, Paris, 2003. I found these sentences in the examples and the exercises:

Page 10: "Paul et moi, nous sommes francais."

Page 11: "Jean et moi, nous sommes a Cannes."

Even this variant on page 16: "Ugo et moi, on est grands et blonds."

(Sorry I don't have a French keyboard.)

I think these sentences demonstrate cases in which the literal word-for-word equivalence between English and French doesn't apply.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

pls look at this: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/g/stressedpronoun.htm and that: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/pronouns_stressed.htm

Basically, it is correct to say "toi et moi sommes riches" and "toi et moi, nous sommes riches", but the first one is closer to the English.

The construction with comma + nous is a further emphasis on the pronouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

Non, c'est simplement le francais. C'est seulement une particularite (an idiosyncrasy). Il y en a beaucoup en anglais aussi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeValley1

I disagree, unless we're speaking of colloquial English instead of regular English grammar. While DL allows "You and me are rich," that's not proper English. It's "You and I are rich." Language is fluid - and it seems that this is one of those phrases where people think both are okay, but formal English grammar (which is always good to know) says it should be You and I.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

DL should not allow "you and me are rich". It's incorrect English grammar. That is a reportable error. We English speakers would not want to learn French that is full of grammatical errors either. Language is fluid, but "you and me are rich" is not the direction English is flowing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

I just changed that: Duo does not allow "you and me" any longer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

Excellent! Many thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaurDL
  • 1094

This isn't that complicated... The extra pronoun isn't needed in English; there's no rule that it must be included in French either...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeValley1

But the English translation permitted, in this case, is not the formal English required by English grammar. Is it also the case in French??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

Which non-formal translation, exactly, are you referring to? "You and me are rich"? That one is not only not formal, it is not correct. If it's not correct, formality is beside the point. "Toi et moi sont riches", however, is grammatically correct French, and translates as grammatically correct English: "you and I are rich".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

No it is not: toi et moi sommes riches is the correct conjugation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdr51

Oh for Pete's sake! Of course it is! Thanks for catching that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaurDL
  • 1094

I honestly don't even remember what or who I was responding to at this point.

I think I was saying something about his example of: "Paul et moi, nous sommes francais."

He was adding an extra "we" into the sentence that is neither in the French sentence or the English translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sherryli1119

Is "riches" here representing that "Toi and moi" are female?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

"riches" is the plural for both masculine, feminine and mixed subjects.

with other adjectives, you have variants: "toi et moi sommes belles (fem.)", "toi et moi sommes beaux (masc and mixed)"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/desrain

I thought toi and moi were objective forms of tu and je


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sitesurf

They can be objects after a preposition: pour toi, avec toi...

Here, they share the status of subject of the verb, so they are in their "stressed" form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BearBikerBruce

When you listen to the speaker she says "tway" for toi...which reminds me of how the French say oui...."way"....but it makes it hard for the learner to translate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaurDL
  • 1094

I would report it then, that does sound weird.

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