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  5. "Cá bhfuil mo nuachtáin?"

" bhfuil mo nuachtáin?"

Translation:Where are my newspapers?

July 16, 2015

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

Hearing this sentence, without text, how does one know it's nuachtáin and not nuachtán?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The final N in nuachtáin should be slender, and the final N in nuachtán should be broad.

(The final phrase would have been better stated as mo chuid nuachtán rather than mo nuachtáin.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

Is the final N in nuachtáin audibly different than the final N in nuachtán? How much room is there for it to be slender, at the end of the word?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

It should be audibly different. There’s plenty of room for it to be slender, since the palatalization of the slender N will be the last sound heard in the word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

Is there someplace this pronunciation difference can be heard? I'm not familiar with the sound at all, and I don't know of any English language sound equivalent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The Connacht pronunciations of arán vs. aráin could be compared, but this particular example is a bit subtle. The slender version will sound as if it has something of an English consonantal Y following the N. If you’re familiar with a Slavic language, the difference between hard and soft consonants in e.g. Russian is similar to the difference between broad and slender consonants in Irish.

The closest English equivalent might be in the pronunciation of a word like “duke”; a “broad” analogue might sound like “dook”, and a “slender” analogue might sound like “dyook”. Another possibility might be “coupon”, where broad would be “coo-pon” and slender would be “Q-pon”. These English palatalizations would be more prominent than the Irish slender palatalizations, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

Ok, well in that I hear the "I" certainly. I hadn't got the impression there was a hard and fast rule about "AI" pronouncing both vowels, at least not from the lessons and pronunciations I'd heard so far. Do plurals that change A to AI always pronounce both vowels?

But I don't hear anything particularly palatalized about the "N" at all. Unless I'm mistaken, a palatalized nasal sounds like the Ns in "annual". As that sound comes with a y-glide after it, I'm not sure how that can be accomplished on the final consonant, unless a vowel sound is being added after, or there's another palatalized nasal sound in use here that I'm not hearing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Both á and ái should have identical pronunciations; the i is there only to show that the next consonant should have a slender pronunciation. There’s some variability in the pronunciation of ai, though.

I did note that the palatalization in that recording of aráin was subtle.

“Annual” has the English consonantal Y sound (IPA /j/), which is stronger than the palatalization of Irish slender consonants. If you think of the pronunciation of the musician Enya’s name (Eithne), that has a slender N followed by a “schwa” — if you clip the schwa, you’ll get a final slender N.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

Well, I listened over and over to the word you linked, plural and singular and I definitely hear a very clear diphthong, but I hear no palatalization of the N whatsoever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Perhaps there’s a clearer example to be found on the teanglann.ie site — arán vs. aráin was the first contrasting pair that I’d noticed when looking through the words beginning with A.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

What about http://forvo.com/word/nuacht%C3%A1n/#ga vs. http://forvo.com/word/nuacht%C3%A1in/#ga I can't vouch for GeneralBelly's accent one way or the other, but the plural sounds like a diphthong, sans palatalization.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

To me, generalbelly’s pronunciation of -táin in nuachtáin sounds like /tɔin/ — a Connacht /ɔ/ (somewhat closer to /ə/ than one of Munster) — as a diphthong with a broad N.

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