"Ĉu vi estas ano de tiu estraro?"

Translation:Are you a member of that board of directors?

July 20, 2015

29 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Siavel

Why does this exclusively refer to a "board of directors"? Wouldn't "group of leaders" also work?

I've reported this as a possibility, but would like to know if I'm wrong.


[deactivated user]

    I also wonder why "board of directors" seems to be taken for granted as the meaning of "estraro". After all, "estro" = "leader", any kind of leader, not just a director, so adding the affix -ar should make it mean any group of leaders.

    In Esperanto, surely "board of directors" should be either "direktoraro" or "estraro de direktoroj".

    Incidentally, Duo accepts "group of leaders".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    I've only ever seen "estraro" to mean "board of directors", and usually of an Esperanto organization. I've been an estrarano in one Esperanto organization. More recently I've been a teamano in another. I've never been a direktorarano.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

    Looking at vortaro.net, it seems to have a slightly broader meaning. "Executive committee," perhaps. "Estro" is someone who's in charge, not necessarily a leader (gvidanto, ĉefo).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    On the contrary, according to vortaro.net, it seems to have a more narrow meaning than Siavel's "group of leaders." It's specifically a board, with a fixed number of seats, elected by the members or an advisory board. Isn't this what a board of directors is?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

    The "estro" part is broader than "leader" is in English. It's defined by power, not respect or skill. But, yes, "estraro" is a formalized structure for vesting power in a specific group of people.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tomicxo

    Surely it can mean more than a corporate-style board of directors, though? An «aro de estroj» could be a council of political leaders like the G7, or the European Council, for example. I'm not saying that it could mean a cabinet or council of ministers though—that would be a «ministraro».


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

    I did not say "corporate style" - but yes, it is a board of directors. I am using this term on purpose. There are many expressions in Esperanto which "could" mean this or that, but don't. For example, a "sxtuparo" could be a barrel of unassembled steps, but it's not. A vortaro could be a paragraph, but it's not. A libraro could be a public library, but it's not.

    Estraro could include the G7, but it does not.

    I would like to say that I have specifically disagreed with DavidLamb3 on this point.


    If people would call the European Council a board of directors, then I might be comfortable calling them an estraro. Otherwise, no.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tomicxo

    What about the European Council, though? Surely that is an estraro? After all it is effectively the board of directors of Europe.


    [deactivated user]

      Yes, as I mentioned in my earlier message, "estro" = "leader", any kind of leader, not just a director, so adding the affix -ar should make it mean any group of leaders.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/randomlinguist

      In addition to salivanto, who else answering this thread teaches Esperanto or is a Duo volunteer maintaining the Esperanto tree?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      Sometimes new threads get attention from new people. Other times older threads will be followed by experienced speakers who will get notified of new comments. Looking around this thread, I don't see anybody who fits your criteria. I'm a little puzzled though, why you're asking specifically here and right now.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/randomlinguist

      (Running across this as I revisit this part of the tree...) I think I was questioning why the grilling you received above. Sometimes questions for the purpose of edification seem to have an underlying student knows better than a teacher feel.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      I see.

      Quite honestly, I sometimes have a hard time with this. I feel this "student knows better" thing often enough. At the same time, I hope people will read the kindest tone into my messages, so shouldn't I do the same for others? Maybe it just seems that way to me.

      The other thing is that in spite of my profile picture claiming to be "Your personal Esperanto tutor" (which, by the way, was meant as a dig against someone who claimed that I was not "everybody's personal Esperanto tutor") - it's difficult for someone new to the board to know who knows something and who is just learning.

      Thanks for the encouragement.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ravl869844

      I am not a teacher, but I agree with you. In fact, I happened to be reading an article in Le Monde Diplomatique in Esperanto yesterday, and they used the word "estraro": "...la pliproksimiĝo de la maroka reĝlando kun Israelo, kiun la alĝeria estraro taksas rekta milita minaco kontraŭ ĝia lando": https://eo.mondediplo.com/article2986.html


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      I generally don't use Le Monde Diplomatique en Esperanto as a model.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ravl869844

      Hi, Salivanto. This raises interesting questions (at least for me). What do you yourself use as a model? Should we agree on one model to follow? Does the official vortaro cover all the needs of a living language? What is the extent of use of a word? Who and how limits it? These are aspects of Esperanto that interest me, as a linguist.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      Sorry, with the announcement that the main forum is being shut down, my attention will be focused there from now till March 22. In short, though, what I"m trying to say is that Le Monde Diplomatique routinely includes phrasings which deviate from standandard Esperanto -- presumably due to national language influence, but honestly, I don't know because I'm more focused on what the good models say.

      I'm sure a google search could turn up some things that I've written about LMD here before.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coenny

      would management work as a translation of "estraro"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      I think I wouldn't use "that management" - you can be a part of management but I wouldn't use it as a countable noun in that sense.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1e7nx0WG

      This question regarded Cxu as a typo, whereas many sentences accept this as correct. As there was no option for "My answer should be accepted", I have reported this as "Something else went wrong".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidLamb53073

      Typos don't cause an answer to be marked incorrect, so if you really can't find a way of typing words like ĉu, ŝatas, and ĥoro, just continue use the x-system and ignore the typo messages.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1e7nx0WG

      It certainly used to be true that answers using the x-system were only marked as typos, but something has changed within the last few weeks, at least in relation to "Type what you hear" questions, which are sometimes now marked wrong when x-system answers are submitted, for example, the following: she-reported-wrong.png

      This appears to occur when using the x-system with capital letters and I intend to raise a bug report about it.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      I've heard rumours that capitalising the x as well may possible help, e.g. SXi raportis….


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      Thanks for doing the research!

      So I suppose Esperanto Ĉu and German Öl and similar words need a proper keyboard if you want to avoid warnings, if none of CX/Cx/cx or OE/Oe/oe work due to a deficiency in the language rules.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      I've heard the rumors too. One day I'll test it out so I can stop saying it's a rumor.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1e7nx0WG

      Unfortunately, at least in my experience, the rumour is incorrect. For another "Type what you hear" exercise, I entered

      CXu vi atendas min longe aux mallonge.

      and it was marked wrong. I see from the Chrome extension, that the solution to this exercise is listed as

      Ĉu vi atendas min longe [aŭ / aux] mallonge?

      where alternative answers are placed in square brackets and separated by slashes. This makes me wonder whether x-system answers have all been added in this way, and are missing for capital letters simply because they have not been added in a similar way. But of course I have no knowledge of how Duolingo processes and checks submitted answers, so this is pure guesswork.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

      Looking at the corrections, I think they have mixed hats and X-system in the answers. See screen shots links elsewhere in this thread.

      I'd bring this to the attention of the team, but I don't have all the details and I've been told very directly that it's a "bug". I believe this was done in a public message. The impression I got was that I was being told not to bring it up.

      From my perspective, if my understanding is correct it should be an easy fix -- but as I said, I don't have the whole picture, so I think we just need to live with it.

      Edit A screenshot posted by Chuck Smith on FB in 2015 makes me think that the x-system is handled by "language rules" here - and are not entered manually as it seems in the screen shots. This seems to suggest that when I said I was right to underscore "if" above and that the situation really is a "bug" as I've been told.

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