"Kiel granda estas la universo?"

Translation:How big is the universe?

July 21, 2015

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/person594

Would "Kiom granda estas la universo" mean the same thing here?

July 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/jxetkubo

Yes, it would.

July 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Vortarulo

...but it's not recommended. "Kiel granda" is better.

August 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/PatriciaJH

Kial?

September 26, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/jxetkubo

If you use tiel/kiel in the cases you still have tiom/kiom for emphasis.

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/minombreespollo

I would use tiom/kiom in this way: "mi amas lin tiom, kiom da sablon la dezerto havas." Would that be correct/understandable?

April 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto

The trouble is "da sablon" - because you would never have an n-noun after "da". Maybe something like ... tiom, kiom la dezerto havas sablon.

April 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jxetkubo

The preposition da does not take an accusative. The accuasitive is used with preposition only to distinguish locatioon and direction with those preposition which can give both:

en la domo – in the house (location)
en la domon – into the house (direction)

but: al la domo – to the house (direction, but the preposition al can give directions only)

April 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/claire_resurgent

Because there was a big fight about 70 years and tiom-kiom-ismo pretty much lost following an argument to Zamenhof's usage. As a result:

Kiom should (properly) be reserved for actual expressions of measurement or number, including with a da phrase.

This is one of the very few cases of prescriptive grammar in the language.

September 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto

I had not heard of tiom-kiom-ismo (and I would love it if you could cite a source or link for the "70 years" number.) I do know, however, that it's possible to use tiom and kiom without da -- and for grades, so I decided to look for a source for tiom-kiom-ismo.

I found this (see link below.) I think you're mistaken. "Tiel granda" and "tiom granda" mean different things, but both are valid expressions.

http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/kvantaj_vortoj/grado_kvanto.html#i-7ko

Edit - let's degree to disagree - har har har. :-)

September 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/claire_resurgent

"Du malsanoj en Esperanto." It's not authoritative, but the arguments are clear and convincing to me. (The other malsano is using "kia" like "ol" and "kiel".)

http://i-espero.info/files/elibroj/eo%20-%20hoog,%20h.a.de%20-%20du%20malsanoj%20en%20esperanto.pdf

I hesitate to just call a grammatical structure "emphatic" -infrequent structures usually emphasize some specific aspect of meaning. Substituting "kiom" emphasizes quantifiability, like when Z uses it: "

La propagando de Esperanto, kiom ajn grandaj estas ĝiaj lastaj progresoj, estas apenaŭ komencata."

De Hoog's observation is that Zamenhof scarcely ever did this and his main argument against tiom-kiom is that its popularity creates a style where it becomes hard to understand the limits of tiel-kiel, confuses new Esperantists, and departs from the Fundamento. Although it's a prescriptivist position, it doesn't say that comparisons and analogies with kiom are always wrong, only that they stretch the meaning of kiom and confuse the usage of kiel.

I think our disagreement is mostly in degree. I wouldn't introduce kiom as a more emphatic option when comparing degree. I'd say that it makes a quantitative metaphor - it denotes that someone could count or find a ruler or a scale - and that this sense is sometimes (rarely by Z) stretched to qualitative statements for rhetorical effect.

Thus I understand that, "kiom longa" is perfectly natural for measuring timber, "kiom granda" may be natural or stretched depending on the sense of "granda", "kiom aminda" is certainly silly - but poetry may benefit from silliness.

September 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto

As jxetkubo alludes to in his later replies, "kiom" in place of "kiel" here does not precisely mean the same thing. There's a sense of "emphasis." That is, you're kind of saying "yes, I know the universe is huge, but how huge is it?" With "tiel" it's more neutral - like "what is the size of the universe."

September 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/PierreAuza

Neniu scias kiel granda la tuta universo estas, sed la observebla universo estas proksimume 13.8 miliardoj lumjaroj.

http://m.space.com/24073-how-big-is-the-universe.html

November 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/AdamScott794079

1.46×1053

June 2, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ConorFingleton

Almenaŭ sep mejloj.

Mi ne estas astronomiisto.

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jxetkubo

Astronomiisto estas ĝusta vortfarado, sed la normala vorto por tiu profesio estas astronomo.

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ConorFingleton

Dankon.

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/RuskiGermans4Eva

Tro granda.

January 11, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Coukaratcheat

Ĉu "Kia granda estas la universo ?" estas prave ? Sed ne, Kiel oni povas scii kiam uzi "Kia" aŭ "Kiel" en tiu kazo ?

March 24, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto

La respondo de "kia" gxenerale estas adektivo. La respondo al "kiel" estas adverbo.

March 25, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/errant1

Tre grandega.

March 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AlLMRX

Spaco estas granda. Tre granda. Vi ne kredos kiel vaste, grandege, mensogeme granda ĝi estas. mi intencas ke estas longa vojo sube la vojo al la apoteko, sed tio estas nur arakidoj kompare kun spaco.

May 25, 2018
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