There is no article or possessive in this sentence that can be translated 'his' or 'the'.
I would not say that I have something if someone else has it... so I wouldn't say that the boy has an apple in someone else's pocket (because then I would rather say that someone else has the apple, not the boy)...
Thus, the sentence must be referring to the boy's pocket (does that make sense?). And the possessive is not needed explicitly (I think).
Here DL is teaching us that in Italian you assume (unless otherwise stated) that clothes belong to the person who is wearing them. In this sentence the pocket therefore is assumed to belong to the boy and the otherwise needed his (= sua) is dropped.
We don't normally add the possessive when it agrees with the subject and it can be easily deduced by the context. In some cases you may add it and it just sounds a bit redundant, in others it sounds wrong. Ex. Prende la bici e se ne va = he takes his bike and leaves; Prende la sua bici e se ne va = (still correct, but a bit redundant); Lei tiene una forchetta in mano = she has a fork in her hand ("nella sua mano" would be wrong); Mi lavo la faccia = I wash my face (of course it's my face, whose face should I be washing?)
Give it a couple of decades, and you'll be dropping reflexive verbs in Italian altogether... we have in English and we get by fine.
i'm still far from fluent, but i'd like to add that in this context, possessive only used when the object doesn't belong to the subject. This is similar in Bahasa Indonesia, but weird/unusual in English.
So...this is just normal in Italian. For clothing, I don't have to use the possessive pronouns. What about other examples like "The man's apple is in his car" or "The girl's apple is on her table". Do you still drop the possessive pronouns in such scenarios?
It has been explained in another forum by a native Italian speaker (my mistake I didn't copy the link). She said it's a matter of daily speaking, it sounds off-putting using the possessive pronouns in this case.
Be that as it may, when they provided the exact same sentence earlier, it included the word "sua". Why have it there, but not here?
I'm not looking for a one to one correspondence, but this translation contradicts everything I've been taught about Italian possessives. My point is not that I think it should be translated "He as an apple in pocket", but that the original sentence should have been "Il ragazzo ha una mela nella sua tasca".
I'm thinking that this is an italian figure of speech. It's kind of similar to how we say at home instead of at my home.
A native speaker weighed in on this in another thread and mentioned that Italians wouldn't ever use a possessive here because the verb implies "his pocket" or "your pocket" without another word to specify. It has less to do with grammar, and more to do with the way that it's just the way the phrase "in tasca" happens to be used in Italian.
Yeah that's why I'm confused too. I'm not looking for a perfect translation but I hate when it throws things like this at you without explaining the change (especially when it stressed the whole section about using pronouns to indicate possession)
That is really the concept of immersive teaching, I think--throw real examples at you, instead of grammatical explanations, and let the neural net in your brain start absorbing the models, without the distracting metadiscussions about models and reasons.
It is a more modern way to teach language, and one that duoLingo appears to embrace.
That is what I wrote and was marked wrong. I understand what everyone has been saying in the dialogue above, but it's really difficult when you have been lead to believe that adding these pronouns is so important, and then in other cases it can be dropped. It's hard to know when it is ok to do so and when it is not. It may be redundant, but I wonder if it is so grammatically incorrect to add sua tasca that it is marked wrong. I did however check this sentence with google translate and they too leave out sua.
I'm here ready to argue with "pen in hand". I don't see why you wouldn't be able to say the same with this boy's apple.
I'm here to sing about how I've got brass "in tasca", and also "ho bottiglia".
Like "pen in hand", having something "in pocket" is a valid, if rarely used, English idiom, and makes sense in the limited context of the Italian text which is given, even if that is not the intended translation.
Thanks to the people here for clearing up the Italian side of things.
Lol just don't mention the rather less correct "ain't gonna use it" in the next line or so. Totally agree with you E_M_F. And I think exposure to idioms is totally necessary, but maybe Duolingo should just place an icon after the answer so that we understand that is why it is this way :)
Even though 'in pocket' is wrong English, I gave that as the answer, as there is no indication otherwise, & lost a heart :-( But the answer provided by DL was 'in a pocket'. Surely it should have been 'in una tasca' in that case. I beleive that 'nella sua tasca' or 'in sua tasca' would have been more appropriate.
I think you actually CAN say correctly "he has an apple in pocket" in English, it's just not heard very often.
I wanted to write in his pocket, but seeing that duo is always so specific I did it literally. I wish they would decide. Obviously in English we would never say in pocket.
Don't Brits speak this way, i.e. "in hospital" vs. the American form, "in the hospital"?
Yes, in hospital, like at school - I think we must just learn & accept that some things are idiomatic!
Yes, some things may be idiomatic, and I think it's great that we're learning them. But like a previous poster mentioned, it would be helpful if there was either 1) some consistency in usage or 2) an explanation of the fact that this usage means the same thing as the previous sentence (earlier in the same practice session) that was written "in sua tasca"...
Yeah they speak like in the north of England, mostly in and around the Yorkshire region.
I think Duolingo needs to stop with these idioms, or at least save them for higher levels.
you are correct. I am taking this as a refresher course, having studied Italian for many years. Duo just finished teaching possessives, and in stead of reinforcing the lesson, throws in and idomatic phrase. mi non piace questo
And worse, in the same practice session, I was given the exact same sentence, that time as "in sua tasca"...
Would anyone elaborate why this isn't an acceptable answer? Does "nella tasca" translate to "your pocket"? (As shown in an online translator)
in another thread about this same issue just said it sounded weird. it (apparently) sounds like you are specifying a particular pocket out of many: so you could say nella tasca dei (?) pantaloni, to specify the pant pocket, but if its understood which pocket the person is talking about then "la" is not used
I'm a little confused: when do you use "in" as supposed to the different forms like nel, negli, nella etc. which are declined according to the noun that they modify?
Agreed. Wouldn't it be "in sua tasca"? Or whatever the possessive for him/her/it happens to be in this case
'in tasca' is more of an idiomatic expression, where it doesn't match up literally translated to English, but the full 'in his/her/its pocket' meaning is inferred. Just one of those language-specific subtleties that make you proud when you internalize.
I wrote that he has an apple in a pocket. Duo didn't like that. Was afraid it would ❤❤❤❤❤ around if i wrote the/his pocket. Gone is the heart.
"in tasca" appears to be idiomatic and it would be really helpful if Duolingo were to indicate that.
I have another issue with this sentence, namely, how does one know when to use in over other words which translate into the English word in?
A big THANK YOU to all that take the time to help me understand. Your explanations keep me going. I love Duo Lingo and your explantons help me over the inevitable obstacles!
Agree with the last comment. Also, I think maybe the reason why it is not "nella" tasca is exactly because it is always taken to mean in "his" pocket. Including "la" could perhaps disrupt this meaning.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe that both English phases are valid, with rather subtle difference in meaning. However if 'in tasca' so strongly implies 'his pocket' that we cannot translate without 'his' or ' the', what would be the Italian equivalent of 'in pocket'?
Hello! I have a few questions concerning "in". When do I use the Italian word "in"? Does it mean the same as nel/nella/...? Could I use "nella" in this sentence and say "Il ragazzo ha una mela nella tasca"? Thanks!
Two things haven't been explained yet. First, why do we use in instead of nella here? Second, why isn't there the use of "la sua" here?
Please help us.
the voice lady is definitely better than the previous one but Italian cadence makes it seem like she say "in a tasca"
No it does not.
"Il ragazzo ha una mela in tasca" is a perfect italian sentence, - but the direct translation "The boy has an apple in pocket" is not a good translation.
Here you have the answer to the question re "Il ragazzo ha una mela nella sua tasca." "Sua" is implied, non e vero?
It is hard to imagine that the boy has the apple in somebody else's pocket
does "in" mean "in (possesive here or 'the')"?
nel tasca = "in the pocket" nella sua tasca = "in his/her pocket" in tasca = "nel tasca" or "nella sua tasca"
Am I understanding it correctly?
I want to be able to put an entire apple in my pocket. Thanks for the unrealistic standards Duolingo. Hehehe