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"Außer ihm liest keiner das Menü."

Translation:Apart from him no one is reading the menu.

December 30, 2012

54 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tangershon

it's really hard to hear the "m" (As opposed to "ihn") in the recording


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hohenems

Außer requires the dative case. Knowing that, one should know to use ihm and not ihn in the sentence rendering the audio deficiencies moot.

I of course only find stuff like that out after hours of having the same audio problems and trying to understand why ihn was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dariusch

very useful link, thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/izzitty

You have very helpful answers. Danke sehr! :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sk8rMom

I agree. These endings have messed me up time and time again...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Teresinha

Sure! It was my only mistake...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andreas.im

it's not exactly hard, it's just that the audio is wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarluck

Is "keiner" functioning as the subject of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hohenems

Yes. Nobody reads, "keiner liest".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Teresinha

That "keiner" is/isn't a declesion of "kein"? ( Vide LB_StorM vs TomSFox ).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/luizgsc

I understood that, in this context, "keiner" means nobody, but could this phrase be instead "Außer ihm, liest niemand das Menü"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/V2Blast

There shouldn't be a comma there, but otherwise it seems fine to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pjreagan

SayHi accepts that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/babykage

Why must "keiner" be used instead of keine? Must it be constant with ihm, which means it should also be masculine?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LB_StorM

Because "keiner" is not a declension of "kein" in this case.

Keiner here means nobody, whereas kein generally just means no.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Teresinha

Oh ...That is interesting.Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hutcho66

There's no reason that 'keine' can't be used, it's just that traditionally the masculine pronoun is used when talking about one of a group of mixed gender. It's the same in every language, but as we come into this new age of political correctness, it's becoming more common to use whichever one feels like using (and this has lead to things like using 'they' to refer to a single person, which annoys me a lot!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/P-Paul

Your assumption that "it's the same in every language" is incorrect. FYI.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dave_1060

The about.com german website says the Menü is a false cognate and that it means "today's special" (at a restaurant) and does not translate to menu in english (http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa030199.htm). Anyone with more experience know if this is the case? If at a German restaurant you asked for the Menü would they give you a menu (Speisekarte) or tell you the specials? Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GalTopper

I know the word as meaning a "multiple course meal". Often, restaurants would have a few options for such meals on the Speisekarte. So if you ask for the Menü, they would most likely ask whether you would like 'Menü 1' or 'Menü 2', or just 'welches?'. I've never seen it used in place of [Speise/Getränk]Karte.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kalliona

I wonder if it's actually closer to the Spanish "menú", which is a multiple-course meal at a set price -- with many lunchtime "menús", you get your choice out of 4 starters and 4 main dishes, plus water or wine and coffee or dessert, for €10-15. If you order off the "carta" which includes all dishes the restaurant offers (equivalent to the English "menu"), you will pay by the dish with no drinks included and likely end up spending more.

Since there is more than one dish on a Spanish "menú" I'd say it is possible to read it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BB__

Could the sentence also be: "Außer ihm keiner liest das Menü"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lexht

No. The verb has to take the second spot in the sentence. "Außer ihm" is a prepositional phrase, so together they are the first spot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bharad.kv

thanks Lexht... that was really helpful... i took the phrase as two separate words and was wondering why the verb wasn't in the second place


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Siddhartha_90

Good question. Thanks for asking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J03Woo

I got this as an audio question before I knew that the word Außer existed


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/khutch39

Could it not be "Outside him, no one reads the menu"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WillJohnst

Reminds me of Groucho Marx's quip: " Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/augustopy

"Outside him" sounds unnatural...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pjreagan

I think you mean "Outside OF him, no one reads the menu". That is understandable but a little awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bi11ie

If I wanted to add "right now" to this sentence, would I say "Ausser ihm liest jetzt keiner das Menue" or "Ausser ihm liest keiner das Menue jetzt"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BB__

From what I know, there is a certain order for elements like time in sentences. Time related words should be at the beginning of the sentence. So I think it would be: "Jetzt, außer ihm liest keiner das Menü"

But usually the verb would be into second place in the sentence for example: "Er liest das Menü" -> "Jetzt, liest er das Menü".

But I think that the "jetzt" here functions differently and doesn't require the switching around of words. I think! Otherwise maybe the sentence would be: "Jetzt, liest außer ihm keiner das Menü" That just doesn't feel right, but I could be completely wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bi11ie

Hmm.. I think that that last one (jetzt liest außer ihm keiner das Menü) is correct because the verb is into second place


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ineslpa

could another way of saying the same be "AuBer ihm niemand liest das Menu"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

No, that word order is not possible. BTW: The German 'ß' is not a "B" and it really looks very awkward if you write it like that. If you don't have the 'ß' character available, it's better to transcribe it as 'ss'. But if you're learning German here, I guess it'd be a good idea to research a way to write the correct character 'ß' as you'll need it quite often.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Osama0

Why "Kiner liest" is not true, is there a rule for that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flex567

what is the right word order ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clara_Elizabeth

I have read all the comments and still I cannot understand why it must be "keiner" and not "keine" - by what rules is it being conjugated? Or is it one of those "just because" dealies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GalTopper

Because 'keiner' means 'no one'. It's not a conjugation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xAshton

What's the difference between außer and nur?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kalliona

"Nur" means "only". "Außer" means "apart from". You could write a different sentence that meant "Only he is reading the menu" but the sentence here says "Außer ihm", which means "Apart from him."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/QuintanillaJon

Can you rewrite this sentence as "Keiner liest das Menü außer ihm"? I'm assuming "außer ihm" is in front for emphasis?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/musoniq

Keiner is a word meaning no one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/calvinlimuel13

Duolingo should work with reading the sentence division... I thought I heard "außer inglis"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancisKon

Anyone finds it odd that "Nobody except him..." is wrong but "Except him nobody..." is correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/radar_rook

A question about diction for a native speaker: is the audio speaking how a native German might say this particular sentence?

Why i ask is in English one would typically pause after "him", or at the very least use stronger inflection in one's voice when saying "Apart from him".

When i listen to the German audio it all just runs together and there is not one particular word being stressed. Is this different for Germans or is this just the audio's limitations?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wataya

You'd make a short pause after "ihm" in German, too. Just like in English. You should not rely on a computer voice getting such subtleties right :)

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