"Мійулюбленийтранспорт-літак."

Translation:My favorite means of transportation is a plane.

3 years ago

21 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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This particular unit of Ukrainian is so frustrating, requiring me, as it would, to learn some sort of Ukrainianized English, that I think I will give up on this particular language, untill the English translations accepted in this unit are broadened considerably.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/manat297076
manat297076Plus
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Not only you are learning Ukrainianized English here, I noticed, but also Russified Ukrainian, unfortunately. Particularly in the usage of prepositions.

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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When you say Russified Ukrainian, are you simply saying that it is more like that spoken in the East of the Ukraine than in the West, or that a Ukrainian would not be able to understand the sentences supplied here because of features including the use of prepositions?

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/manat297076
manat297076Plus
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Ukrainians, in the East or West, would understand those sentences, no doubt, just like you and I understand the English sentences presented in this class, those lacking articles and built improperly. Same about some Ukrainian sentences that do not correspond to Ukrainian grammar. I think sometimes, taking this class, that maybe both English and Ukrainian taught here, do not HAVE to be correct? The grammatically wrong English sentences presented here, displease the users, and I feel the same. The wrongness is easily recognizable and unpleasant. Similarly, some Ukrainian sentences supplied here not only sound improper, but breed ambiguation and raise the DL users' frustration exactly because they are grammatically wrong. This is a philosophical issue: should we learn the colloquial or the proper language on DL? To speak somehow or to speak grammatically correctly? In other classes the DL representatives try their best to teach the grammatically proper languages though, particularly in my Spanish class, and Polish, and German. And yes, people in the West of Ukraine speak real, beautiful Ukrainian, the one that grew out of centuries of its usage, while some (not all) people in the East, instead of trying learning proper Ukrainian, speak some Russified version of it. Taking this class I hoped to renew my Ukrainian (from central Ukraine) , which was pushed out of my mind by years of using English, but my hopes keep dropping lower, as I proceed deeper into this course. I really was not looking forward to learning the Russified version. Thanks, of course, to those who volunteers to teach. But, sorry to say, it feels sometimes, that this language is taught by people not exactly proficient in either English or Ukrainian.

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Yep, I'm frustrated about the same things :')

And I'm a contributor, so hypothetically I have the power to change this, but... I don't have the power to change the Ukrainian sentences. I do have full rights to modify the English ones, but there's a SHITLOAD of those here and I'm not working here full time.... And when I fix some, some others pop up.... There's this whole legacy of horrible sentences here. I have no idea why more sections were even created when the previous ones had not been fixed yet.

I feel ya.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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Are there new sections, though? Even with some of the frustrating English, it will be fun to go back to Ukrainian, so thanks.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Man, your streak and your languages give me shivers X_X

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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The secret is not liking any other games on one's cell phone and have a wide interest in languages. I just do a little every day, often on the subway, and I guess I have done so for about three years.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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This is always difficult for an English-speaker to understand, since we have no language authority that establishes some government-approved variety of the language. We have regional variations and varieties that sound more or less formal, but it is only invalid if no English-speaking community uses it. The Englishes used in the Irish and Welsh courses often run into this issue. As you say, the goal of the learner determines which variety of the language a person would like to learn. I am quite happy learning formal and archaic forms, because my interest in most languages here is as a reader of academic and older works, along with official news sources. Others would like to be able to speak colloquially, to sound like someone from the homeland of the language, even from a particular region. In this case, it does not trouble me to learn forms more influenced by Russian any more than it would trouble me to learn forms more influenced by Polish, as long as I can understand a sentence from a newspaper, from a Hrushevskii book, or from a Shevchenko poem. I would like them to change the course, if their use of prepositions is not what any speaker of Ukrainian would use, but not if it is simply the use of a particular region. I am no more troubled by that than the Portuguese course's use of the Brazilian standard, the Welsh course's preference for southern forms, or the Guarani course's use of the urbanized Jopara.

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Sorry, ran out of thread levels.

Are there new sections, though? Even with some of the frustrating English, it will be fun to go back to Ukrainian, so thanks.

There is a new version of the tree. Since I've been away for the last four weeks busy IRL, I don't really know what "new version" means :) Hopefully some fixes.

I hope there are no new sections! xD Maybe new ones replacing some old ones, but not new ones added on top... That would only worsen the existing problem. I would also love to reshuffle some sections. For example, to teach Genitive before teaching numbers, so that it's not so confusing afterwards.

The problem is that the "bulk edit" on Duo is not very developed. And the people who created the exercises didn't spend half the time that they should have on them. So you would have one sentences with the word "sneakers" and one with "sneakers/trainers" and one with "sneakers/running shoes". And the learner would just never know which one to use cause there's a certain probability that the answer will be wrong for each one of those! :D So the only sure way to fix it is to go through all the sentences with "sneakers" and add those manually. Same applies to more important things like "to go" -> "їхати, їздити, йти, іти, ходити"; "тепер" -> now, right now, currently, at the moment; having "Чи" at the beginning of certain questions..... And so on and so on... Don't get me started :)

So that's why I don't want new sections xD The old ones are a total mess. We'll never go out of beta if they create sentences like that.

Another problem is that for the courses without text-to-speech Duolingo hires a third party and records, say, 2000 sentences. That's it. Any other new ones just don't have audio, and we cannot change it. It would be totally cool to somehow use TTS. There are several existing ones, but I don't know if they're free or in general are for commercial use (e.g. the Google Translate one), and I don't know how to contact Duolingo properly to push this update....

I wish this was my job with a salary and a lot of time :D :D I feel so powerless dropping by once in a while...

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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That sounds like some projects I have undertaken (and had to drop) recently. Well, just having a program like this to get some exposure to Ukrainian is helpful (at least to me, though I have some exposure to Slavic languages). You know, I wouldn't worry overly much about the lack of sound. Ukrainian strikes me as quite phonetic in its spelling, a lot more so than Russian, for instance. By the time I got a sense of how the various letters were pronounced in Ukrainian, I felt like I could sound out the words pretty well. Now, the bulk edit and general editing problems are definitely something that would be nice to have improved, but I know that is a huge task when one of these courses is actually complete.

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Right. So, apart from the general comment, could you write more about this particular sentence?

I don't see any other translations apart from "means of transportation". I removed "method of transportation" just now because it sounds weird to me, I don't think it's a thing. Or is it? There are so many variations of English that I'm never sure :) Could you comment?

I removed also other alternative translations and left only "means of transportation".

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/obado
obadoPlus
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Please please please could the course admin deal with reported sentences? In Britain nobody would say "means of transportation", we would say "form of transport", but this is marked wrong. This course is like Memrise, where you have to learn the answer they want. No other Duolingo course I have studied is like this :(

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Sorry, there are only 4 of us and 328K of you :) And hell knows how many sentences... I do agree that it was a stupid idea to add THAT many sentences and sections before debugging all of them, now it's a huge pile of ugly mess.

Anyway, back to the topic. From what I see, "form of transport" means the same as "mode of transport" which means, apparently, only generals ways of moving things (inland, sea, air, space, even pipelines or cable acc. to some sources); and each mode of transport includes different means of transportation. This is what a dictionary tells me. Are you sure "form of transport" is really commonly used to mean "means of transportation" (e.g. bus, boat, airplane, bicycle) rather than "mode of transport" (air, sea, land)?

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnjaNoppinger
AnjaNoppinger
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"My favorite means of transportation is the airplane". I have just reported that this answer should be correct as well, shouldn't it?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Not really. "Means of transportation" would be "вид транспорту" I guess. Your sentence has more details than this one. The meaning of the two is very close but the structure is different, so the translations are not interchangeable.

Same as "Do you like porridge?" and "Do you like to eat porridge?" kind of mean the same but they are not the same sentences.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sagitta145
sagitta145
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Ignore my previous comment. In this sentence "транспот" means "вид транспорту" which is "means of transportation". And the sentence you wrote is accepted, so now I'm confused...

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnjaNoppinger
AnjaNoppinger
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As I have posted on a similar translation. I would really call on the operators of this exercise to change these two sentences! As sagitta told me earlier the Ukrainian version is unusual as well. Regarding the English translation your explantation that "My favorite transport is (the) plane" has just a broader meaning than "My favorite means of transport is (the) plane" doesn't really correspond to the definition of "transport" I have found in the English dictionary or in wikipedia.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/transport http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de/definition/englisch/transport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport

"a system of vehicles, such as buses, trains, aircraft, etc. for getting from one place to another:" They even have an example sentence that shows a similar structure to the one I have suggested: "Bicycles are a cheap and efficient FORM OF TRANSPORT."

transport can also mean "A large vehicle, ship, or aircraft used to carry troops or stores." and in very rare cases transport can obviously stand as a synonym for "vehicle". But generally if you google "favorite transport" you will only find articles that contain the combination "favorite means/form... of transport(ation)" So if the operators don't want to change the translation as a whole, they should at least accept both translation as a correct solution. And last but not least, in a similar sentence there was also this American native, who posted that he would never translate this sentence that way.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/va-diim
va-diim
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This the worst course on Duolingo. The contributors don't understand English whatsoever! An "airplane" is NOT WRONG if "plane" is the right answer!

3 weeks ago
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