"Tian ĉi stultulon ni tute ne bezonas tie ĉi!"

Translation:We do not need this kind of fool here at all!

August 1, 2015

17 Comments
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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Polysermo
  • Duolingo, when I try to test out of the whole tree to see if I can.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSnowKing

For the first two sections, I genuinely did every lesson. Then I realized, that I really only needed to do the first level and could easily test out of the rest since the language is so regular. I've been doing the Norwegian course since last January, but my highest progress score there is still a 3.5. I started this course a month or two ago, and my first progress quiz I got a 4.2.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arkonide

Would it not be possible to write: This kind of idiot we do not need here at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Yes, though it's probably less common than putting the object after the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

It just accepted nearly this from me. (I wrote ‘fool' instead of ‘idiot’ and ‘don't’ instead of ‘do not’, otherwise the same.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malfruemulo

Yesterday I cleared out a lot of reports from this sentence, and there was a common theme of issues with tute ne bezonas. You can essentially think of tute ne as as kind of a set phrase; this is an instance where word order is more strict in Esperanto than in English.

Why? This is because in Esperanto, words like ne and tute (ankaŭ and ankoraŭ are other very common examples in this class) rely on order to mark the word they modify. Take a look at these example sentences:

Ŝi ne legis tiun libron. --> ŝi ne[legis] tiun libron: She didn't read that book. (The "default" ordering of this sentence.)

Ne ŝi legis tiun libron. --> ne[ŝi] legis tiun libron: She didn't read that book (but someone else did).

Ŝi legis ne tiun libron. --> ŝi legis ne[tiun libron]: She didn't read that book (but she did read the other one).

Ni ne bezonas tiun stultulon --> ni ne[bezonas] tiun stultulon: We don't need that idiot.

Ni tute ne bezonas tiun stultulon --> ni tute[ne[bezonas]] tiun stultulon: We do not need that idiot at all.

Ni ne tute bezonas tiun stultulon --> ni ne[tute[bezonas]] tiun stultulon: We don't completely need that idiot.

Applying this logic, we see that tute ne means "absolutely not; not at all" while ne tute means "not entirely; partially." To be clear, this means that tute ne and ne tute are near opposites! Word order is the only thing preserving the meaning here, so using tute ne bezonas in that order is essential for this sentence.

Less "grammar"-y and more "meaning"-y adverbs (like rapide, bele, gaje, etc.) are generally a bit more flexible about word order, but if one of the stricter adverbs wants to describe them, it will still follow these rules.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

tute ne = not at all
ne tute = not totally

Less "grammar"-y and more "meaning"-y adverbs (like rapide, bele, gaje, etc.) are generally a bit more flexible about word order, but if one of the stricter adverbs wants to describe them, it will still follow these rules.

I think you'd find Cherpillod's "Vortordo (Loko de La Adverbo)" very interesting - especially with regard to workds like bele, rapide, gaje.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arkonide

Mizinamo, thank you for your comments. I have come across translations that were faulted by actually were correct as an alternative. I rather belatedly found out that you can use the reporting function to alert the authors to perceived errors etc. I now make use of that function.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arkonide

For 'by' read 'but' :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

You can edit your comments, you know, rather than having to post a correction as a reply :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/randomlinguist

Can't, at least in the Android app.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

It looks like this phrase was taken verbatim from one of Sylvan Zaft's books.

"Tian ĉi stultulon ni tute ne bezonas tie ĉi!"

Zaft translated the sentence: We don't need this kind of a fool here at all. I hope that's accepted. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelindaD1

Can this be written "Ni ne bezonas tian ĉi stultulon tie ĉi tute."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/salivanto

No. "Tute ne" means "not at all" and has to appear in that order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arkonide

Still learning Mizinamo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Franciszek699844

I think that "idiot" could fit here as well as "kind of fool"

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