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  5. "Lui ci ha portati allo zoo."

"Lui ci ha portati allo zoo."

Translation:He has taken us to the zoo.

December 31, 2012

73 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlzWolz

Shouldn't this be "ci ha portato?"

February 20, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FullRinse

Yes there are many mistakes with direct pronouns in this section. Please correct this Duolingo!!!!

February 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vfcampi

No this is not a mistake. When a clitic precedes the conjugated form of avere in the passato prossimo, the ending of past participle (in this case, portare) should match in number and gender. Since ci is plural and assumed mixed genders, it is "ci ha portati". For l'ha portata if the uncontracted form is la ha portata, etc.

When essere is the auxilliary verb, the past particle has to match: Sono stato/a, sei stato/a, siamo stati/e, siete stati/e, sono stati/e.

March 4, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Monkey wrench time: the "Tips and Notes" in the header to this section, where the portals to each lesson are collected, says that:

"If the verb is conjugated with any ... direct object clitic [other than 3rd person DO clitics or "ne"], it can optionally match its gender and number".

According to these rules, "portati" and "portato" are both correct.

June 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KevinFranc5

Lol Italian language never short of monkey wrenches...

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobFreestone

I do not understand why the ending of portati should match the gender/number of the object, ie ci, rather than the subject, ie Lui,, in which case would it not be portato?

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alec_spb

because it literally means "he has us taken", so we've been taken, not he.

April 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

It's just the rule, you match to the direct object pronoun

November 5, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grrl8

-93 seems a bit harsh!

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrucePlumb

OK, I just adjusted it not to be a "bit" harsh. Actually it seems to have started a good discussion, so not all complaints are unproductive.

August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jones_Rick

Do you really expect that Duolingo will do this. I expect mistakes in English but not in the target language.

December 15, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leonardicus

This can also translate to "He brought us to the zoo."

December 31, 2012

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beethoven.21

I think that the trickiest thing about this exercise (in my case audio transcription), is that it came right after the exercise to translate: Lui ci ha portate allo zoo. I took it for granted that it was the same thing, instead of listening to it slowly. -i and -e endings are so tough to differentiate acoustically. And the correction shows almost no mercy.

I didn't think that this program threw curve balls with the intention of striking us out, but now am not so sure.

July 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeniaAT

The order of the exercises changes every time, so you were probably just unlucky this time.

June 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bumsai

Maybe it's just your deafness, Ludwig :P

September 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

The "Tips and Notes" in the header to this section, where the portals to each lesson are collected, says that:

"If the verb is conjugated with any ... direct object clitic [other than 3rd person DO clitics or "ne"], it can optionally match its gender and number".

According to these rules, "portati" and "portato" are both correct.

June 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ckyle8

Wait, I'm confused. What is the difference between portati and portate? I just saw both used for the exact same sentence.

August 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leonardicus

Portati indicates a group of boys, men or mixed group. Portate is exclusively female.

August 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ckyle8

Oh, so it's like the difference between ragazze and ragazzi. Okay, thanks.

August 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesjiao

Interesting.. "He has taken us to the zoo" and "He carried us to the zoo" are both accepted answers... but not "He has carried us to the zoo". A bit of an oversight by the course coordinators. Reported anyway.

January 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

and lo and behold this group has some men in and the last were all women

August 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_Mir

how do I know it's about "us" and not "them" - i've translated this as "He's taken them to the zoo" and the owl said it's wrong... and I can't figure it out... please help

February 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

direct object pronoun ci=us li or le =them

February 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_Mir

thanks a million, confusedbeetle :)

February 18, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnthonyRen

When do you use 'portati' as opposed to 'preso'?

January 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

not sure really but portare feels like bringing and prendere feels like taking to me

January 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrucePlumb

“Take” can mean either portare or prendere but if you think carefully of the meaning of the English in context it is clear which Italian verb to use. leading, guiding, bringing versus grabbing, seizing, taking possession

February 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

I said, "He had taken us to the zoo," and DL marked it wrong indicating it is, "He has taken us to the zoo.". What's wrong with " He HAD taken us..."?

May 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

What's wrong with, "He had taken us...," instead of "He has taken us..." ?

May 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

CinziaL52: It's the wrong tense. "Had taken..." would be "aveva portati", not "ha portati".

May 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

Germanlehrerlsu: Grazie. Si, ho dimenticato. Ringrazio per il tuo risposto. Hope my Italiano is correct here. :-)

May 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wxfrog
  • 1219

How can we tell "ci" means "us" and not "them"?

June 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

wxfrog: b/c ci as a pronoun means 'us' in this context; them would be 'le' or 'li'.

June 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wxfrog
  • 1219

ty

June 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Them would be Li or le I think

June 4, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tommy556270

Why not "portate" help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

November 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnabelleW607537

Our Italian teacher is Sicilian, who told us that in present perfect avere is used, than the verb does not changed either with the gender or when it's plural. He said it would be wrong.

January 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

This is true BUT when a personal pronoun comes into the mix the past participle has to agree with it. Even when using avere

January 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peejob

Ci ha portati suggests it is a group of men speaking...it is a woman's voice in the dictation. Am I thinking incorrectly about this ??

April 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

peejob you are thinking correctly that a group of men would be portati, but, if there is a mixed group of both men and women then the men take precedence and it is also portati. So it can be a female talking about a mixed group

April 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judita218397

Keep it simple hey?!

May 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paolo_Pen

Why is he took us to the zoo incorrect?

July 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piamgo

Could somebody pls explain, why it can't be “SHE“ who's taking us to the zoo? Thank you!

November 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

piamgo: The subject 'lui' can only mean 'he'. "She" would be 'lei'.

November 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christoph908681

I'm sorry DL but I definitely heard the voice say 'portate' and not 'portati'

October 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Christoph: DL to Christoph: You say portate, I say portati...let's call the whole thing off. :-)

October 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa_Kay_

Totally confused because here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/220137 Duolingo uses "portate." I'll post on that place, too, and reference this link.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa...it'd only be portate if the reference (ci) were to a group of females, the -e ending indicating that. An -i ending, portati, means the reference group (ci) is either all male or a mixed group of males and females. The participle has to agree with the pronoun object, in this case is 'ci'. But as I say, 'us" can be a group of all males > portati or a mixed group of males and females > also portati. The only way it'd be portate would be if the group were comprised of all females.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa_Kay_

Okay. But did you look at both links? Duolingo translates BOTH to the same thing. Here... I'll copy & paste from both pages.

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/98910 "Lui ci ha portati allo zoo. " Translation: He has taken us to the zoo.

And https://www.duolingo.com/comment/220137 "He has taken us to the zoo." Translation: Lui ci ha portate allo zoo.

Am I losing my mind?

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa Of course the translations are the same! The reason is that 'ci' can refer to any group of people & so out of context it's impossible to say who makes up that group, gender wise, UNLESS there's a marker. Is the group made up of all men, all women, or a mixed group. That's exactly what the past participle endings will tell us, but the sentences translate exactly the same since it's "us" in both instances and unlike Italian, English has NO way of indicating the makeup of that group. It's simply "US". In Italian, the past participle carries a marker, indicative of gender. If the past participle is portatE then "us" refers to a group of girls or women; if the past particple is portatI, then the group is either made up of all boys/men or a mixed group of men and women/boys and girls. So again, both sentences translate the same into English because we have NO way to indicate who makes up that group of 'us'. Italian DOES, namely by agreement between the past participle and the direct object pronoun (ci).

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa_Kay_

Thank you so much for your reply. Okay. I get it. However, half the time I get this wrong when Duolingo asks me to translate "He has taken us to the zoo." How in the world would I know which one they want?

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa, you can't know if the sentence is out of context. My experience is that Duo would accept either portati or portate for the sentence in question. There's no way they could or should do otherwise since it could be either.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa_Kay_

Oh, look at that. Now it lets me hit "reply." Hmmm.

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa_Kay_

I have no "reply" to click on for your last comment, below, but wanted to let you know that, yes, Duolingo has marked me wrong. sigh No way to click on "notify" Duolingo, either.

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa, I see from your post above this one that you've had some success in wearing them down! Way to go! Whether accepted by them or not, be assured your answer is correct and that's what's important.

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bjojoe

DL! What's wrong with: "he has carried us to the zoo"??

January 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

bjojoe: It's just not the most logical way to translate 'portare' in this context. I'd never say for example "I carried my children to the zoo yesterday." Or "Oh, let's carry the children to the zoo this weekend!" It's just not the most logical translation. I mean given DL's sentence you'd have to wonder: "So exactly how strong is he? One child on each arm? Two on his back, & one on each leg?

January 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

But the italians do use portare in this context

January 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

confusedbeetle: Of course they do, I agree with you. But English speakers don't translate 'portare' as to "carry" in a context like this. In another context, 'carry' might very well translate "portare' best, but not in the context of a trip to the zoo -- or I'd guess any other destination. We "take" people places, we don't "carry" them there unless e.g. it's an accident scene, battlefield scenario where victims would quite logically be "carried" somewhere for treatment.

January 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Last post to bjojoe

November 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Portate would indicate that we were a group of all females Males or a mixed group is portati

November 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rob864970

Confused here .. why isn't it portato to agree with zoo (or is zoo neutral?)

April 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

rabskiart: The past participle doesn't agree with 'zoo' but with the direct object pronoun us/ci. Being plural the ending is 'i'. Note: FidoGracie's comment beloe is absolutely incorrect.

April 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FidoGracie

"ci ha portato", not "ci ha portati". Verbs using avere as their auxiliary verb in the present perfect always use the participle ending in "o" regardless of gender or number---- unless they are made reflexive (and switching to essere as the auxiliary), which is not the case here.

February 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

I believe that when you have a pronoun added to the mix, that the past participle has to agree whether or not the auxiliary verb is avere

February 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Past participles w/ avere agree with direct object pronouns.

January 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Sorry I am a bit confused again, germanlehrerlsu, is your reply to me or Fido gracie? you and I seem to be saying the same thing

January 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

It was to Fido gracie. Sorry for any confusion. Yes, you and I on on the same page.

January 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

I'm taking an Italian class with native Italian teachers, and the textbook states that the past participle always ends in "o" when using avere, but in verbs using essere the past participle must agree in number and gender, "-o/-a/-i/-e.".

May 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

CinziaL52: Not so! Please read the various explanations above for past participal agreement even in verbs requiring 'avere' when there's a direct object pronoun involved. The rules are very clear in this regard. Hai comprato la casa? Si, l'ho comprata. Note the following examples off the web:

Hanno visitato il nonno. (They have visited their grandfather.) BUT: Lo hanno visitato. (They have visited him. Also: L'hanno visitato.)

Ho comprato i pantaloni. (I have bought the pants.) BUT: Li ho comprati. (I have bought them.)

Abbiamo veduto Teresa. (We have seen Theresa.) BUT: L'abbiamo veduta. (We have seen her.)

If you've got native Italian teachers in your class, you should ask them about this. Possibly they didn't go into this "exception" in detail so as to not 'muddy the waters' so to speak.

May 8, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stiofanin

Thank you for this explanation Germanlehrerlsu, it's really useful.

June 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Noell52

Germanlehrerlsu, you are so right. I forgot this rule. Thank you!

April 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

No problem. Everybody forgets, sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not. Ciao.

April 30, 2016
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