"Lui ci ha portati allo zoo."

Translation:He has taken us to the zoo.

December 31, 2012

71 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OlzWolz

Shouldn't this be "ci ha portato?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David536982

My very well-educated Italian friend (who was raised in Italy) agreed that "portato" is correct, until I read out the argument for "portati". Let us all take comfort from that!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamdunk

I think I might have an answer to this after f.formica's comment on another thread vis Passato Prossimo & its auxiliary verbs.

When Avere is used as the auxiliary, but with a Clitic Pronoun - here, Ci/Us - then, the Past Participle matches that Pronoun, rather than the verb's subject (which subject conjugates via the auxiliary Avere)

So, here, 'i' is the generic Plural ending, so 'portati'.

However, not in all cases of Clitic Pronouns, apparently. That is beyond my knowledge, currently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/slg7248

Almost...only 3rd person direct object pronouns using avere as the auxillary verb require the past participle to agree with the object pronoun. 1st and 2nd person are optional.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Yes Jamdunk you are correct. Always follow formica, good info


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeeBergin3

I don't understand this comment - and I'm a native English speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

He took us to the zoo yesterday, simple past, he has taken us to the zoo many times, trying to avoid grammar terms but is pluperfect. Also an English speaker. It isnt always entirely necessary to be at one with the English. Its the Italian we need to grasp


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Actually this course teaches English as well, it's reverse learning. Some people are learning English here using Italian, some people are learning Italian using English.
So both side of the equation should be perfect


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Yes I do see your point. I guess personally I gloss over some if the English mismatches. Perfection might be a tall order but you are right


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Right, “perfect” was not the best choice of word
I should have used the word correct
Btw I’m nor English neither Italian speaker, so I’ve been learning both languages here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Excellent, I am impressed. Well done Have a lingot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sameh__h

The past participle does not agree with the subject when the perfect tense is made with avere, except when certain object pronouns come in front of the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beethoven.21

I think that the trickiest thing about this exercise (in my case audio transcription), is that it came right after the exercise to translate: Lui ci ha portate allo zoo. I took it for granted that it was the same thing, instead of listening to it slowly. -i and -e endings are so tough to differentiate acoustically. And the correction shows almost no mercy.

I didn't think that this program threw curve balls with the intention of striking us out, but now am not so sure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bumsai

Maybe it's just your deafness, Ludwig :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeniaAT

The order of the exercises changes every time, so you were probably just unlucky this time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leonardicus

This can also translate to "He brought us to the zoo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MeiaSala

Tried it first and lost a heart. Reported Aug 25, 2020


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ckyle8

Wait, I'm confused. What is the difference between portati and portate? I just saw both used for the exact same sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leonardicus

Portati indicates a group of boys, men or mixed group. Portate is exclusively female.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ckyle8

Oh, so it's like the difference between ragazze and ragazzi. Okay, thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paolo_Pen

Why is he took us to the zoo incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamesjiao

Interesting.. "He has taken us to the zoo" and "He carried us to the zoo" are both accepted answers... but not "He has carried us to the zoo". A bit of an oversight by the course coordinators. Reported anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_Mir

how do I know it's about "us" and not "them" - i've translated this as "He's taken them to the zoo" and the owl said it's wrong... and I can't figure it out... please help


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

direct object pronoun ci=us li or le =them


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_Mir

thanks a million, confusedbeetle :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

and lo and behold this group has some men in and the last were all women


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnthonyRen

When do you use 'portati' as opposed to 'preso'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

not sure really but portare feels like bringing and prendere feels like taking to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peejob

Ci ha portati suggests it is a group of men speaking...it is a woman's voice in the dictation. Am I thinking incorrectly about this ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

peejob you are thinking correctly that a group of men would be portati, but, if there is a mixed group of both men and women then the men take precedence and it is also portati. So it can be a female talking about a mixed group


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate3010

Also, why is it written 'he took us to the zoo' for us to translate when the whole lesson is supposed to be present perfect and should say 'he has taken us to the zoo'? DL does this a lot the other way round as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aseame
  • 1009

That's how I would say it as someone English, using "took". "Has taken" just sounds a bit clumsy so I tried "took" to see if it worked and to my annoyance, it didn't! :-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

This depends whether you are thinking in us grammar terms or uk. The american present perfect relates to uk simple past, or oerfect tense. Passato prossimo.He took us. Then you go further back in time to past perfect and pluperfect. Thinking in English grammatical terms therefore, can be very confusing. Eg the use of the Imperfetto in Italian does not readily convert to English use. We use a gerund, continuous also differently. For this reason I have decided to only think in Italian grammar terms. Now I am a little less confused


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/veena357117

Whats wrong with she took us to the zoo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

Germanlehrerlsu: Grazie. Si, ho dimenticato. Ringrazio per il tuo risposto. Hope my Italiano is correct here. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wxfrog
  • 2167

How can we tell "ci" means "us" and not "them"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

wxfrog: b/c ci as a pronoun means 'us' in this context; them would be 'le' or 'li'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

Them would be Li or le I think


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnabelleW607537

Our Italian teacher is Sicilian, who told us that in present perfect avere is used, than the verb does not changed either with the gender or when it's plural. He said it would be wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/confusedbeetle

This is true BUT when a personal pronoun comes into the mix the past participle has to agree with it. Even when using avere


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Judita218397

Keep it simple hey?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreaColl738835

The English translation of this sentence is He brought us to the zoo. Not this nonsense that no one ever says. I think they have really botched this tense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dick403354

Twice today DL has given me exactly the same question twice in a row. I was correct each time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

Can this sentence be restructured without the reflexive, or would that sound strange to natives?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

there is no reflexive in this sentence "ci" means "us" (NOT "ourselves")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

Ah yes, I was mistaken. I think what I meant to ask was:

Why "ci" and not "noi"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

"noi" is "we" "ci" is “us”
it does not sound right: "He has taken WE to the ZOO"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

This does not seem to always be the case. Specifically, in a previous exercise, Duo provided this example:

"Tu ti unisti a noi."

And the following translation:

"You joined us"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

No, you are getting confused by "Direct Objects Pronouns" (study them well before you do those exercises) In this case it is a different "NOI" and it really means "us". Check the table: 1st person singular (me) - me 2nd person singular (you) - te 3rd person singular (him, her, formal you) - Lui, lei, Lei 1st person plural (us) - noi 2nd person plural (you) - voi 3rd person plural (them) - loro


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

Thank you for that clarification. Duolingo had not mentioned that there were separate forms!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrettThoma3501

Thank you for that link as well! The mobile app's tip section did not include any of those helpful hints or tables.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

I did not know that As I've been home since mid March I've been doing it on a computer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertWill713455

he is pronouncing zoo as "DRO"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicolsNani

This is the third time I get this sentence in the same lesson. How does this work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

You know, learning by repetition is a great way when it comes to languages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/littlemissk_s

This is ridiculous, i keep seeing this same sentence - i get it right each time and yet it keeps reappearing - duolingo i am not learning anything new! Can you just fix this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SunnyWebb

i feel like this section should be called CLITICS II AND PRESENT PERFECT


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Williamssi61905

Just when you begin to think you finally get it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melaninja

How can I tell from this sentence that it is "us" and not he/she/it/you or someone else ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

“ci” means “us”, it is a direct object pronoun:
-1st person singular (me) mi

-1st person plural (us) ci

-2nd person singular (you) ti

-2nd person plural (you) vi

-3rd person singular (him, her, formal you) lo, la, La

-3rd person plural (them) li, le


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Il_Gruggo

Why is 'He took us to the zoo' wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rolandsf

ZOO sounds like DOO. There's no DZ sounds at the beginning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KeenanLapi

why does 'ci' mean 'us' and not 'them' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

ci = us
It is a Direct Object Pronoun
You can find the full list here:
https://www.duolingo.com/skill/it/Clitic-Pronouns-1/tips-and-notes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/veena357117

He took us to the zoo whats wrong with that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moshe885573

Where is the "us" in this sentence?

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