"Lui ci ha portati allo zoo."

Translation:He has taken us to the zoo.

6 years ago

65 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/OlzWolz
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Shouldn't this be "ci ha portato?"

6 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FullRinse

Yes there are many mistakes with direct pronouns in this section. Please correct this Duolingo!!!!

6 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vfcampi

No this is not a mistake. When a clitic precedes the conjugated form of avere in the passato prossimo, the ending of past participle (in this case, portare) should match in number and gender. Since ci is plural and assumed mixed genders, it is "ci ha portati". For l'ha portata if the uncontracted form is la ha portata, etc.

When essere is the auxilliary verb, the past particle has to match: Sono stato/a, sei stato/a, siamo stati/e, siete stati/e, sono stati/e.

6 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877
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Monkey wrench time: the "Tips and Notes" in the header to this section, where the portals to each lesson are collected, says that:

"If the verb is conjugated with any ... direct object clitic [other than 3rd person DO clitics or "ne"], it can optionally match its gender and number".

According to these rules, "portati" and "portato" are both correct.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RobFreestone

I do not understand why the ending of portati should match the gender/number of the object, ie ci, rather than the subject, ie Lui,, in which case would it not be portato?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

It's just the rule, you match to the direct object pronoun

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/alec_spb
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because it literally means "he has us taken", so we've been taken, not he.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jones_Rick
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Do you really expect that Duolingo will do this. I expect mistakes in English but not in the target language.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/leonardicus

This can also translate to "He brought us to the zoo."

6 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Beethoven.21

I think that the trickiest thing about this exercise (in my case audio transcription), is that it came right after the exercise to translate: Lui ci ha portate allo zoo. I took it for granted that it was the same thing, instead of listening to it slowly. -i and -e endings are so tough to differentiate acoustically. And the correction shows almost no mercy.

I didn't think that this program threw curve balls with the intention of striking us out, but now am not so sure.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EugeniaAT
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The order of the exercises changes every time, so you were probably just unlucky this time.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jeffrey855877
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The "Tips and Notes" in the header to this section, where the portals to each lesson are collected, says that:

"If the verb is conjugated with any ... direct object clitic [other than 3rd person DO clitics or "ne"], it can optionally match its gender and number".

According to these rules, "portati" and "portato" are both correct.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ckyle8
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Wait, I'm confused. What is the difference between portati and portate? I just saw both used for the exact same sentence.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/leonardicus

Portati indicates a group of boys, men or mixed group. Portate is exclusively female.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ckyle8
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Oh, so it's like the difference between ragazze and ragazzi. Okay, thanks.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jamesjiao
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Interesting.. "He has taken us to the zoo" and "He carried us to the zoo" are both accepted answers... but not "He has carried us to the zoo". A bit of an oversight by the course coordinators. Reported anyway.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

and lo and behold this group has some men in and the last were all women

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie_Mir

how do I know it's about "us" and not "them" - i've translated this as "He's taken them to the zoo" and the owl said it's wrong... and I can't figure it out... please help

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

direct object pronoun ci=us li or le =them

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie_Mir

thanks a million, confusedbeetle :)

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnthonyRen

When do you use 'portati' as opposed to 'preso'?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

not sure really but portare feels like bringing and prendere feels like taking to me

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BrucePlumb
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“Take” can mean either portare or prendere but if you think carefully of the meaning of the English in context it is clear which Italian verb to use. leading, guiding, bringing versus grabbing, seizing, taking possession

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CinziaL52
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I said, "He had taken us to the zoo," and DL marked it wrong indicating it is, "He has taken us to the zoo.". What's wrong with " He HAD taken us..."?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CinziaL52
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What's wrong with, "He had taken us...," instead of "He has taken us..." ?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

CinziaL52: It's the wrong tense. "Had taken..." would be "aveva portati", not "ha portati".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CinziaL52
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Germanlehrerlsu: Grazie. Si, ho dimenticato. Ringrazio per il tuo risposto. Hope my Italiano is correct here. :-)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wxfrog
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How can we tell "ci" means "us" and not "them"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

wxfrog: b/c ci as a pronoun means 'us' in this context; them would be 'le' or 'li'.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wxfrog
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ty

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Them would be Li or le I think

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/piamgo
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Could somebody pls explain, why it can't be “SHE“ who's taking us to the zoo? Thank you!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

piamgo: The subject 'lui' can only mean 'he'. "She" would be 'lei'.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Christoph908681

I'm sorry DL but I definitely heard the voice say 'portate' and not 'portati'

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Christoph: DL to Christoph: You say portate, I say portati...let's call the whole thing off. :-)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lisa_Kay_

Totally confused because here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/220137 Duolingo uses "portate." I'll post on that place, too, and reference this link.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa...it'd only be portate if the reference (ci) were to a group of females, the -e ending indicating that. An -i ending, portati, means the reference group (ci) is either all male or a mixed group of males and females. The participle has to agree with the pronoun object, in this case is 'ci'. But as I say, 'us" can be a group of all males > portati or a mixed group of males and females > also portati. The only way it'd be portate would be if the group were comprised of all females.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lisa_Kay_

Okay. But did you look at both links? Duolingo translates BOTH to the same thing. Here... I'll copy & paste from both pages.

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/98910 "Lui ci ha portati allo zoo. " Translation: He has taken us to the zoo.

And https://www.duolingo.com/comment/220137 "He has taken us to the zoo." Translation: Lui ci ha portate allo zoo.

Am I losing my mind?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa Of course the translations are the same! The reason is that 'ci' can refer to any group of people & so out of context it's impossible to say who makes up that group, gender wise, UNLESS there's a marker. Is the group made up of all men, all women, or a mixed group. That's exactly what the past participle endings will tell us, but the sentences translate exactly the same since it's "us" in both instances and unlike Italian, English has NO way of indicating the makeup of that group. It's simply "US". In Italian, the past participle carries a marker, indicative of gender. If the past participle is portatE then "us" refers to a group of girls or women; if the past particple is portatI, then the group is either made up of all boys/men or a mixed group of men and women/boys and girls. So again, both sentences translate the same into English because we have NO way to indicate who makes up that group of 'us'. Italian DOES, namely by agreement between the past participle and the direct object pronoun (ci).

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lisa_Kay_

Thank you so much for your reply. Okay. I get it. However, half the time I get this wrong when Duolingo asks me to translate "He has taken us to the zoo." How in the world would I know which one they want?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa, you can't know if the sentence is out of context. My experience is that Duo would accept either portati or portate for the sentence in question. There's no way they could or should do otherwise since it could be either.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lisa_Kay_

Oh, look at that. Now it lets me hit "reply." Hmmm.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lisa_Kay_

I have no "reply" to click on for your last comment, below, but wanted to let you know that, yes, Duolingo has marked me wrong. sigh No way to click on "notify" Duolingo, either.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Lisa, I see from your post above this one that you've had some success in wearing them down! Way to go! Whether accepted by them or not, be assured your answer is correct and that's what's important.

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Tommy556270

Why not "portate" help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnnabelleW607537

Our Italian teacher is Sicilian, who told us that in present perfect avere is used, than the verb does not changed either with the gender or when it's plural. He said it would be wrong.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

This is true BUT when a personal pronoun comes into the mix the past participle has to agree with it. Even when using avere

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bjojoe

DL! What's wrong with: "he has carried us to the zoo"??

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

bjojoe: It's just not the most logical way to translate 'portare' in this context. I'd never say for example "I carried my children to the zoo yesterday." Or "Oh, let's carry the children to the zoo this weekend!" It's just not the most logical translation. I mean given DL's sentence you'd have to wonder: "So exactly how strong is he? One child on each arm? Two on his back, & one on each leg?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

But the italians do use portare in this context

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

confusedbeetle: Of course they do, I agree with you. But English speakers don't translate 'portare' as to "carry" in a context like this. In another context, 'carry' might very well translate "portare' best, but not in the context of a trip to the zoo -- or I'd guess any other destination. We "take" people places, we don't "carry" them there unless e.g. it's an accident scene, battlefield scenario where victims would quite logically be "carried" somewhere for treatment.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Last post to bjojoe

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Portate would indicate that we were a group of all females Males or a mixed group is portati

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rob864970
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Confused here .. why isn't it portato to agree with zoo (or is zoo neutral?)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

rabskiart: The past participle doesn't agree with 'zoo' but with the direct object pronoun us/ci. Being plural the ending is 'i'. Note: FidoGracie's comment beloe is absolutely incorrect.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FidoGracie

"ci ha portato", not "ci ha portati". Verbs using avere as their auxiliary verb in the present perfect always use the participle ending in "o" regardless of gender or number---- unless they are made reflexive (and switching to essere as the auxiliary), which is not the case here.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

I believe that when you have a pronoun added to the mix, that the past participle has to agree whether or not the auxiliary verb is avere

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Past participles w/ avere agree with direct object pronouns.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/confusedbeetle

Sorry I am a bit confused again, germanlehrerlsu, is your reply to me or Fido gracie? you and I seem to be saying the same thing

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

It was to Fido gracie. Sorry for any confusion. Yes, you and I on on the same page.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CinziaL52
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I'm taking an Italian class with native Italian teachers, and the textbook states that the past participle always ends in "o" when using avere, but in verbs using essere the past participle must agree in number and gender, "-o/-a/-i/-e.".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

CinziaL52: Not so! Please read the various explanations above for past participal agreement even in verbs requiring 'avere' when there's a direct object pronoun involved. The rules are very clear in this regard. Hai comprato la casa? Si, l'ho comprata. Note the following examples off the web:

Hanno visitato il nonno. (They have visited their grandfather.) BUT: Lo hanno visitato. (They have visited him. Also: L'hanno visitato.)

Ho comprato i pantaloni. (I have bought the pants.) BUT: Li ho comprati. (I have bought them.)

Abbiamo veduto Teresa. (We have seen Theresa.) BUT: L'abbiamo veduta. (We have seen her.)

If you've got native Italian teachers in your class, you should ask them about this. Possibly they didn't go into this "exception" in detail so as to not 'muddy the waters' so to speak.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/stiofanin

Thank you for this explanation Germanlehrerlsu, it's really useful.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Noell52

Germanlehrerlsu, you are so right. I forgot this rule. Thank you!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

No problem. Everybody forgets, sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not. Ciao.

2 years ago
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