Hope this clears a few things up, there's some awesome brainstorming going on here!
It may help to remember mancare is a verb, even though it might be intuitive to read it as an adjective (especially when manco and manca are both possible, how could these not refer to genders?...unfortunately they don't) So pretend that the other person is causing nostalgia, as in you are making me miss you, or you are the cause of my nostalgia. Don't you want the blame to be on somebody else when you feel down?
- Tu mi manchi (Tu manchi a me) = I miss you.
- Lei mi manca (Lei manca a me) = I miss her.
- Voi mi mancate (Voi mancate a me) = I miss you guys.
Now to make somebody else feel lonely...
- Io ti manco (Io manco a te) = You miss me.
- Io le manco (Io manco a lei) = She misses me.
- Io vi manco (Io manco a voi) = They miss me.
And the much debated one, Non le manca:
- Mario non le manca = She does not miss Mario
- Elisa non le manca = She does not miss Elisa
- L'intelligenza non le manca = She is not lacking intelligence.
- I genitori non le mancano = She does not miss her parents.
I have to say thank you to mukkapazza. This is such a lucid explanation, and while I felt I had grasped the principle intellectually, your examples (to be repeated like a mantra :-) have made me feel that I have actually got it at last. Now, everybody, repeat after me..... Grazie tante!
Although I appreciate the explanation, I think it's important to consider that this particular lesson has been a dismal failure. The confusion of 'le' possibly meaning 'the' made this lesson indecipherable to me. Perhaps I'll feel differently as I learn more, but I think there is a lack of instructional scaffolding going on here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding
the concept of "instructional scaffolding" means to structure whatever piece of learning in order to help the student to perform gradually and with comprehensive help, whether with a book or an on-line course. I know Duolingo is great and free of cost (and I appreciate this), but that doesn't mean that just because it is free of cost, can not be criticized (always in positive). I think, that probably the creators of the course, although they make a great effort, perhaps they lack some background knowledge on second languages methodologies and stages of learning them, where "scaffolding" is widely accepted as a great strategy to teach and learn.
I have participated in this "lesson" for better or worse (as Koolkaren knows :-). When I returned to it today to see why there had been several recent comments, it struck me as total chaos. I want to thank inciteinsight for the term "instructional scaffolding," which is unarguably what duolingo lacks most. The recent overhaul of the program may be of some help, but I don't think it gets to the root of the problem.
This translation is misleading. "hacer falta" = "to need" (physically or emotionally). Therefore, "Tu me haces falta" = I need you. It may be used as "I miss you" sometimes, but the focus is the emotional need of having the person near you.
I miss you = Te echo de menos / Te extraño (Latin America)
Thank you for the helpful reply. It has made understanding it all a little easier. But I do have questions remaining. For example: How would I translate the following sentences? 1) My mother misses my sisters 2) My sisters don't miss my mother. What I am try to ask is… how would you bring in the mia madre and the mie sorelle in ….without replacing them with personal pronouns and so forth?
Non gli manco It's the indirect object pronouns. http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare117a.htm
This is a fabulous explanation as everyone else has already said. The one thing I am still confused on however is how do you say "He misses me"? I tried putting that as the answer here because typically you can interchange he and she but apparently that was incorrect in this case.
Here, "LE" is the pronoun meaning "to her", so "Non le manco" means "I am not missing to her" (She doesn't miss me). For it to mean "He doesn't miss me" you would have to use the Italian pronoun "GLI" meaning "to him", so "Non gli manco". I'm pretty sure I have this right and trust that someone more fluent will soon correct me if I have it wrong. :)
I think there is an error in your comment.
Io vi manco (Io manco a voi.) = >
"You (all / you plural) miss me." , not "They miss me."
Io gli manco. (Io manco a loro.) => They miss me.
(Remember: the indirect object gli is BOTH the 3rd person singular "to him" AND the 3rd person plural "to them".
For clarity / to prevent confusion as to which "gli" you meant, you can use the stressed forms after the verb, e.g. "a lui" and "a loro".
Io gli manco. (Io manco a lui.) => He misses me.
The multiple choice form of this question makes no sense, as BOTH options (manco and manca) are equally correct, depending what you are trying to say. 'Non le manca' means 'She does not miss him, her or it', as erikalinor says. 'Non le manco' means 'She does not miss me'. Since there is no English translation given to help you, either one would be correct. I will report it again.
I don' think so, because "le" is an indirect object pronoun that can only mean "to or for her." Whoever or whatever is doing the missing (or not missing), it is clear that "she" is the person "lacking" to the subject of "manca". I'm sticking my neck out here because I think this is the kind of thing one needs to get clear about.
No, smeans2, I disagree. "She" is not the person lacking to the subject of the verb 'mancare', as you say. The way this verb is used in Italian, le (indirect object, as you say) means SHE is the person doing the missing. Someone or something is missing TO her, being lacked BY her. Therefore, it is the person of the verb conjugation for mancare that tells us who is being missed. "Non le manco" (She does not miss me), "Non le manca" (She does not miss him/her/it), etc. Because of the object "le" in the Italian, no matter who the verb conjugation tells us is being missed, it is SHE who is doing the missing (or the 'not missing' in this case, due to the 'non'). :)
Koolkaren--You are right, of course, but I said a long time ago. The use of the verb is much clearer to me now. The lack of linearity in this discussion forum is a serious problem. When a subject gets this complicated and confuses someone new every other day, it's simply impossible to follow it. I've pretty much given up, but I admire you for hanging in there. I'm sure your posts are helpful to others, as they have been helpful to me. Ciao!
io mi manco=i am missed by me(myself) (rare) / io ti manco= i am missed by you / io le manco=i am missed by her / io gli manco=i am missed by him / io ci manco=i am missed by us (not used) / io vi manco=i am missed by you(all) / io gli manco=i am missed by them /
tu mi manchi= you are missed by me / tu ti manchi=you are missed by you(yourself) (rare) / tu le manchi=you are missed by her / tu gli manchi=you are missed by him / tu ci manchi=you are missed by us / tu vi manchi=you are missed by you(all) !!!??? / tu gli manchi=you are missed by them /
lei,lui mi manca=she,he is missed by me / lei,lui ti manca=she,he is missed by you / lei,lui le manca= she,he is missed by her / lei,lui gli manca=she,he is missed by him / lei,lui ci manca=she,he is missed by us / lei,lui vi manca=she,he is missed by you(all) lei,lui gli manca=she,he is missed by them
noi mi manchiamo=we are missed by me !!!??? / noi ti manchiamo=we are missed by you / noi le manchiamo=we are missed by her / noi gli manchiamo=we are missed by him / noi vi manchiamo= we are missed by you(all) / noi ci manchiamo=we are missed by us(ourselves) (rare)
voi mi mancate= you(all) are missed by me / voi ti mancate=you(all) are missed by you !!!??? / voi le mancate=you(all) are missed by her / voi gli mancate=you(all) are missed by him / voi ci mancate=you(all) are missed by us / voi vi mancate=you(all) are missed by you(all) !!!??? / voi gli mancate=you(all) are missed by them
loro mi mancano=they are missed by me / loro ti mancano=they are missed by you / loro le mancano=they are missed by her / loro gli mancano=they are missed by him / loro ci mancano= they are missed by us / loro vi mancano=they are missed by you(all) / loro gli mancano=they are missed by them /
Duolingo is far better than the unfortunately awful French lessons I briefly endured at high school. I don't think Duolingo is currently meant to give you all the tools to become comprehensibly fluent in a language - although it may get there one day. Rather one should use a variety of tools to reach comprehensible standard language. But Duolingo is fun, is easy, does often get it right, and is a massive leap forward for cracking open language study!
In the sentence 'Non le manco', the verb form indicates that I am the one being missed by her. I get that it seems backwards to us English speakers, just like piacere and also like 'to be missed by' (manquer) in French. However, if you are given the multiple choice version, it should accept both "Non le manco" (She does not miss me) and "Non le manca" (She does not miss him/her/it), since both are correct sentences and there is no English translation given to tell you which they want. Since it asks you to choose ALL correct sentences, it should accept both. If it is still rejecting "Non le manca", please continue to report it.
So I've found a super super easy way of learning this verb.
It's not grammatically correct but once you learn the technique you can instantly understand sentences like these.
Forget for a minute that "Mi" = "To me", and just think of it as simply "i". And translate the verb accordingly:
1). (Mi) (manchi) = (I) (miss you)
2). (Ti) (manco) = (You) (miss me)
3). (Mi) (manca) = (I) (miss him/her)
NOTE: Put lei (her) or lui (him) at the front to be more gender specific.
4). (Mi) (mancate) = (I) (miss you guys)
5). (Mario) (non le) (manca)
Literally: (It's Mario that) (she doesn't) (miss "him")
= (She doesn't miss) (Mario)
6). (I genitori) (non le) (mancano)
Literally: (It's the parents that) (she doesn't) (miss "them")
= (She doesn't miss) (her parents)
Using 'to matter' rather than 'to miss' or 'to lack' helps me to decode the sentence, even though it is not a strict translation :
'Non le manco' = not/to her/I matter = 'I don't matter to her' = 'She doesn't miss me'
'Non le manca' = not/to her/he (she, it) matters = 'She doesn't miss him/her/it'
Great post. As of December 2016, duolingo still tells me that "non le manca" is a wrong answer. Reported.
For French speakers: "non le manco" and "non le manca" should both be valid:
non le manco = je ne lui manque pas = she does not miss me. non le manca = il/elle ne lui manque pas = she does not miss him/her/it. except that French is ambiguous as to the gender of the one doing the missing.
Yes, it sure is. "Mancare" means "to be missing" or "to be lacking", and the subject of the verb is what's missing--in this case "I am missing/lacking for her (le)." It's another case where you have to think about something differently in Italian. Literal translation doesn't work.
So where 'piace' is the 3rd person singular and states it is pleasing, with mancare someone has to do the missing so we must use the appropriate conjugation. Non le manco is I am not missing to her, or she does not miss me. And le manca is she is missing to him or her, therefore he/she misses her. Am I stating this correctly?
No, "Non le manca" cannot mean "He misses her", because "manca" is the 3rd person (he/she/it) conjugation of the verb "mancare", which means not "to miss", but "to be missed by". So, in Italian, the subject of the verb is not the person doing the missing, but the person being missed. The 3rd person subject (because the conjugation is "manca") indicates that the person being missed can be any of the 3rd person possibilities (he/she/it). The object pronoun "le" means that, whatever is being missed, only "she" can be the person by whom it is being missed. So, "Non le manco" means literally "I am not being missed by her". "Non le manca" means "He/she/it is not being missed by her". Only "she" can do the missing. Sorry this is so long! :)
For me the easiest way to remember is that it is just the opposite reaction to a normal verb (like with piacere) so if: ti voglio= I want you then: ti manco=you miss me (or, to you I am missed). This is the same as piace such as: mi piace= I like it (or, to me it is pleasing)
Great work mukkapazza...ingot coming your way. For those that are interested, this blog gives a pretty good explanation as well:
There have been some pretty negative comments about the lesson. I have found Duolingo a very challenging way to learn and there are certainly areas that could be improved. And I agree that this task (and the 'Io non gli manco' ) caused me great confusion...over an hour of research actually. But, hopefully, now I'll remember it.
By the way, piacere and mancare are not the only verbs that CAN work like this. If you have some spare time, check out verbs like convenire, interessare, importare and even restare eg. I don't care! Non mi importa! Maria only has memories left. A Maria restano solo ricordi.
There's a set of these verbs that do your head in this way. Piacere, mancare, bastare, etc. http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verb-piacere.htm
Try reading the posts again. Especially the top one. The verb is conjugated by the thing that is being missed, not the person doing the missing.
To be honest, this type of verb along with piacere (to have a liking for or pleasing to) are causing so much confusion and catching so many people out, that I think DL should have a seperate 'verb' section for them. I don't know the name of these verb types, where the 3rd person/party is the focus of the action rather than the 1st.
It seems so to me (see 1 month ago) and to erikalinor (see 2 months ago), except that you said "like" and I think you mean "miss". Anyway, I just clarified my question in a reply to smeans2 above. Maybe we'll get an answer from someone whose Italian is more reliable than mine. :)
I just came back to this discussion 14 hours after posting the above comment (the one which begins "It seems so to me") in which I mention that I had just clarified my question to smeans2. Now I find the comment in which I clarified my question is nowhere to be found! So, here I go again:
In the original question that I was trying to answer in the lesson, we were given 'Non le ___'. We were then given choices as to what to put in the blank. 2 of the choices were 'manca' and 'manco'. It did not accept 'manca' as correct. With no English translation to work from, what I want to know (and erikalinor too, it seems) is why it is not correct to put 'manca'. Wouldn't that be just as correct an Italian sentence. Wouldn't 'Non le manca' (She does not miss him) be just as correct as 'Non le manco' (She does not miss me) ?
Thank you. As I understand that "lo" is referred to him, "la" to her, the conjugation of manca follows "Lei" . In this example of "Non le manco" which is translated to she doesn't miss me, did "le" refer to me or she? and why Non le manca is wrong?Sorry, it seems that my questions are blurred but hope I succeeded to explain what I meant by my questions (I am not a native English)
Actually, I'm feeling doubtful about my previous explanation. I think "le" in the question refers to "She does not miss me," where the first person singular is referred to by verb ending. "Non le manca" is then "She/He does not miss her," whereas "Non gli manca" is "He/She does not miss him." Both can also refer to the plural third "He/She does not miss them."
Because the 'le' in that position with this verb means 'to her' http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare117a.htm So the gender is absolutely there.
The hints don't know context. And 'le' is a very flexible word depending on where it is used and how. It can be the feminine plural definite article 'the' or it can mean 'to her'. Which depends on where it is used. The hints are only that, hints. They don't know context, so the top hint isn't necessarily right for the phrase you're using.
Because 'le' is the indirect object pronoun for 'to her' for 'to him' you need 'gli' http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare117a.htm
So 'To him I am not lacking' 'Non gli manco' - "He doesn't miss me"
"To her I am not lacking" 'Non le manco' - "She doesn't miss me"
I don't know if anyone has said this (or will read this as there is so much to read) but I find I helps to say to myself when I see these types of verbs OK 'Non le manco', manco = I am missed, le =by her, non =negative, so translates as 'she doesn't miss me' That works for me, J
I think I understand mukkapazza's explaination BUT the meaning quoted for mancare is 'to miss', which in english would imply a transitive verb taking a direct object - I miss her (the mistake I made) . It seems that the verb here needs to be taken as 'to be missed' an intransitive verb taking an indirect object before the verb - so 'I am not missed by her' implying 'she does not miss me'. Surely the definition of mancare should cover these uses before we make our natural mistakes. Still fun though.
i'm a bit confused on this one. I have tried to put the sentences in google translate at times to see if it show the same answer. It has been pretty similar. But this time google translate show, "I do not miss them." and when i but "ò" in mancò it shows She do not miss it. I know google translate isn't 100%, but it has to follow some kind of rule to go from I do not miss them, to She do not miss it. What does different with manco and mancò? or should "ò" not be used at all in that word? The doulingo translation is she does not miss me. How do you know it is a she or could I put he doesnt miss me as well? Hope someone can help on this one.
This is how I see it:
Io manco = I am needed/(desired/missed/wanted/etc).
Io non manco = I am not needed/(desired/missef/wanted/etc).
Io non manco "le" = I am not needed by/(to/for) her.
"le" = to/(by/for) her/him (Use "le" as an indirect object...or adverb?).
Reverse the verb "manco" and the pronoun "le".
Io non "le" manco =
I am not (by her/him) needed ~ "She does not miss (/needs/wants/etc) me"
"Io non le manco" = Non le manco.
Non le manco =
(Yo) No le falto (a él/ella). ~ (Ella/él) No me extraña.
(I hope I am right about being able to apply this to he/she indifferently).
Mar 29th 2019.