140 Comments
Hope this clears a few things up, there's some awesome brainstorming going on here!
It may help to remember mancare is a verb, even though it might be intuitive to read it as an adjective (especially when manco and manca are both possible, how could these not refer to genders?...unfortunately they don't) So pretend that the other person is causing nostalgia, as in you are making me miss you, or you are the cause of my nostalgia. Don't you want the blame to be on somebody else when you feel down?
- Tu mi manchi (Tu manchi a me) = I miss you.
- Lei mi manca (Lei manca a me) = I miss her.
- Voi mi mancate (Voi mancate a me) = I miss you guys.
Now to make somebody else feel lonely...
- Io ti manco (Io manco a te) = You miss me.
- Io le manco (Io manco a lei) = She misses me.
- Io vi manco (Io manco a voi) = They miss me.
And the much debated one, Non le manca:
- Mario non le manca = She does not miss Mario
- Elisa non le manca = She does not miss Elisa
- L'intelligenza non le manca = She is not lacking intelligence.
but!
- I genitori non le mancano = She does not miss her parents.
I have to say thank you to mukkapazza. This is such a lucid explanation, and while I felt I had grasped the principle intellectually, your examples (to be repeated like a mantra :-) have made me feel that I have actually got it at last. Now, everybody, repeat after me..... Grazie tante!
Although I appreciate the explanation, I think it's important to consider that this particular lesson has been a dismal failure. The confusion of 'le' possibly meaning 'the' made this lesson indecipherable to me. Perhaps I'll feel differently as I learn more, but I think there is a lack of instructional scaffolding going on here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructional_scaffolding
Point taken! Still, if I wanted 'instructional scaffolding' , I would buy a book, which I already have, actually. Even so, Duolingo is great fun and highly instructive.
the concept of "instructional scaffolding" means to structure whatever piece of learning in order to help the student to perform gradually and with comprehensive help, whether with a book or an on-line course. I know Duolingo is great and free of cost (and I appreciate this), but that doesn't mean that just because it is free of cost, can not be criticized (always in positive). I think, that probably the creators of the course, although they make a great effort, perhaps they lack some background knowledge on second languages methodologies and stages of learning them, where "scaffolding" is widely accepted as a great strategy to teach and learn.
I have participated in this "lesson" for better or worse (as Koolkaren knows :-). When I returned to it today to see why there had been several recent comments, it struck me as total chaos. I want to thank inciteinsight for the term "instructional scaffolding," which is unarguably what duolingo lacks most. The recent overhaul of the program may be of some help, but I don't think it gets to the root of the problem.
The sentence above is "Non le manco", and is translated to "She doesn't miss me". Without io or lei or any preceding subject, how do we know who she doesn't miss? Or is it an implied io unless stated otherwise?
Thanks.. At the time this is introduced, it was unclear how to conjugate these backwards verbs. Plus we hadn't learned clitics yet either..
1690
Couldn't it be "she doesn't miss her"? "non le manca" As in Ann doesn't miss Amy?
A few seconds ago, light stroke my brain and I said: use "importa". Io non le manco. "Yo no le importo" " She does not miss me". Also, as you say "Yo no le hago falta"." She does not miss me". Problem resolved.
Nice to see I have company here from other Spanish speakers! Thanks for the help. Gran ayuda!
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Tu me haces falta means I need you, not I miss you. That would be te echo de menos (source: native speaker)
It's also like "Tu me manques" in French and "Du fehlst mir" in German (literally something like "You are missing from me" - missing in the sense of being absent).
Thank you for the helpful reply. It has made understanding it all a little easier. But I do have questions remaining. For example: How would I translate the following sentences? 1) My mother misses my sisters 2) My sisters don't miss my mother. What I am try to ask is… how would you bring in the mia madre and the mie sorelle in ….without replacing them with personal pronouns and so forth?
@mukkapazza, the "le" in this sentence tripped me up, I thought it was an indirect object pronoun meaning he OR she. Why in this case is "a lei" made into le? How would you write "He does not miss me" (which is what I put)?
Non gli manco It's the indirect object pronouns. http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare117a.htm
Thanks. You have helped clarify the structure. It helps me to think of verbs like these as passive in meaning, e.g., "Tu mi manchi" =" You are being missed by me."
Ok, my brain has officially exploded... But anyway, thanks for this great explanation.
So couldn't "Non le manca" mean "She does not miss him"? The translation and answer here are "She does not miss me" (Non le manco). Should it be "Io non le manco" to be more explicit?
I have not yet come across the use of 'le' as a pronoun. Don't know how I could possibly 'guess' this means 'she...?
And she used my name like example: she does not miss Mario ok well feelsbadman
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Yes thank you that's a nice lesson but it does seem to make nonsense of the original DL question that disallows one of the possibilities stated, i.e. the much debated non El manca, which would seem a possible correct sentence.
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Yes, "Non le manca" (I suspect your 'El manca' is a typo) is a possible correct sentence for the multiple choice, so please continue to report it if you come across it and hopefully it will be fixed. :)
Thank you very much! but why is "io vi manco (io manco a voi) = THEY miss me" and not "You (all) miss me"?
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I reckon you are right - it should be YOU ALL not THEY - we all make mistakes now and then!
This is a fabulous explanation as everyone else has already said. The one thing I am still confused on however is how do you say "He misses me"? I tried putting that as the answer here because typically you can interchange he and she but apparently that was incorrect in this case.
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Here, "LE" is the pronoun meaning "to her", so "Non le manco" means "I am not missing to her" (She doesn't miss me). For it to mean "He doesn't miss me" you would have to use the Italian pronoun "GLI" meaning "to him", so "Non gli manco". I'm pretty sure I have this right and trust that someone more fluent will soon correct me if I have it wrong. :)
Thanks! Though I'm still confused, I think if I keep referring to your explanation it may finally dawn. Here's a lingot!
Mukkapazza,
I think there is an error in your comment.
Io vi manco (Io manco a voi.) = >
"You (all / you plural) miss me." , not "They miss me."
Io gli manco. (Io manco a loro.) => They miss me.
(Remember: the indirect object gli is BOTH the 3rd person singular "to him" AND the 3rd person plural "to them".
For clarity / to prevent confusion as to which "gli" you meant, you can use the stressed forms after the verb, e.g. "a lui" and "a loro".
Io gli manco. (Io manco a lui.) => He misses me.
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The multiple choice form of this question makes no sense, as BOTH options (manco and manca) are equally correct, depending what you are trying to say. 'Non le manca' means 'She does not miss him, her or it', as erikalinor says. 'Non le manco' means 'She does not miss me'. Since there is no English translation given to help you, either one would be correct. I will report it again.
io mi manco=i am missed by me(myself) (rare) / io ti manco= i am missed by you / io le manco=i am missed by her / io gli manco=i am missed by him / io ci manco=i am missed by us (not used) / io vi manco=i am missed by you(all) / io gli manco=i am missed by them /
tu mi manchi= you are missed by me / tu ti manchi=you are missed by you(yourself) (rare) / tu le manchi=you are missed by her / tu gli manchi=you are missed by him / tu ci manchi=you are missed by us / tu vi manchi=you are missed by you(all) !!!??? / tu gli manchi=you are missed by them /
lei,lui mi manca=she,he is missed by me / lei,lui ti manca=she,he is missed by you / lei,lui le manca= she,he is missed by her / lei,lui gli manca=she,he is missed by him / lei,lui ci manca=she,he is missed by us / lei,lui vi manca=she,he is missed by you(all) lei,lui gli manca=she,he is missed by them
noi mi manchiamo=we are missed by me !!!??? / noi ti manchiamo=we are missed by you / noi le manchiamo=we are missed by her / noi gli manchiamo=we are missed by him / noi vi manchiamo= we are missed by you(all) / noi ci manchiamo=we are missed by us(ourselves) (rare)
voi mi mancate= you(all) are missed by me / voi ti mancate=you(all) are missed by you !!!??? / voi le mancate=you(all) are missed by her / voi gli mancate=you(all) are missed by him / voi ci mancate=you(all) are missed by us / voi vi mancate=you(all) are missed by you(all) !!!??? / voi gli mancate=you(all) are missed by them
loro mi mancano=they are missed by me / loro ti mancano=they are missed by you / loro le mancano=they are missed by her / loro gli mancano=they are missed by him / loro ci mancano= they are missed by us / loro vi mancano=they are missed by you(all) / loro gli mancano=they are missed by them /
Just for the record, this sentence should not be allowd before introducing clitics.
Duolingo is far better than the unfortunately awful French lessons I briefly endured at high school. I don't think Duolingo is currently meant to give you all the tools to become comprehensibly fluent in a language - although it may get there one day. Rather one should use a variety of tools to reach comprehensible standard language. But Duolingo is fun, is easy, does often get it right, and is a massive leap forward for cracking open language study!
I agree. If I understand it correctly, our comments and queries are helping to improve Duolingo. And the experts' contributions are excellent. I recommend a holiday in Italy for getting your ear attuned to the lady who does the oral!.
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In the sentence 'Non le manco', the verb form indicates that I am the one being missed by her. I get that it seems backwards to us English speakers, just like piacere and also like 'to be missed by' (manquer) in French. However, if you are given the multiple choice version, it should accept both "Non le manco" (She does not miss me) and "Non le manca" (She does not miss him/her/it), since both are correct sentences and there is no English translation given to tell you which they want. Since it asks you to choose ALL correct sentences, it should accept both. If it is still rejecting "Non le manca", please continue to report it.
i need to be able to have audio that does not mess me up. it said, "Non la manco".
So I've found a super super easy way of learning this verb.
It's not grammatically correct but once you learn the technique you can instantly understand sentences like these.
Forget for a minute that "Mi" = "To me", and just think of it as simply "i". And translate the verb accordingly:
1). (Mi) (manchi) = (I) (miss you)
2). (Ti) (manco) = (You) (miss me)
3). (Mi) (manca) = (I) (miss him/her)
NOTE: Put lei (her) or lui (him) at the front to be more gender specific.
4). (Mi) (mancate) = (I) (miss you guys)
5). (Mario) (non le) (manca)
Literally: (It's Mario that) (she doesn't) (miss "him")
= (She doesn't miss) (Mario)
6). (I genitori) (non le) (mancano)
Literally: (It's the parents that) (she doesn't) (miss "them")
= (She doesn't miss) (her parents)
FransNohlm - Yep like ariaflame said it is like piacere, so literally it is saying: I am not being missed by her .= She does not miss me . The object becomes the subject and the subject becomes the object. Hope this helps.
The problem with the exercise is that it is misplaced. They havent taught this structure yet so how could we be expected to use it correctly already?
Using 'to matter' rather than 'to miss' or 'to lack' helps me to decode the sentence, even though it is not a strict translation :
'Non le manco' = not/to her/I matter = 'I don't matter to her' = 'She doesn't miss me'
'Non le manca' = not/to her/he (she, it) matters = 'She doesn't miss him/her/it'
Worth a lingot! Similarly, I think of 'piacere' as meaning 'to please' rather than 'to like'.
Mancare. It might be a strange verb like piacere, bastare, etc that dont behave like their english translations
Yes, it sure is. "Mancare" means "to be missing" or "to be lacking", and the subject of the verb is what's missing--in this case "I am missing/lacking for her (le)." It's another case where you have to think about something differently in Italian. Literal translation doesn't work.
"non le manco" is she/he doesn't miss me, ok. but "non le manca" can't be she doesn't miss him?
The subject of "manca" could be he, she, or it. She might be missing any one of those. Context, one hopes, would make it clear which. I'm finding "mancare" trickier than "piacere," so if I have it wrong at this stage, someone please tell me.
So where 'piace' is the 3rd person singular and states it is pleasing, with mancare someone has to do the missing so we must use the appropriate conjugation. Non le manco is I am not missing to her, or she does not miss me. And le manca is she is missing to him or her, therefore he/she misses her. Am I stating this correctly?
I would say "partly." I still feel on shaky ground here, but I think "Le manco" is "She misses me" "He misses me" would have to be "Gli manco", and "He misses her" would be "Gli manca" (= "She is lacking to him.") Ragazzi, this one IS harder than piacere.
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Yes. In fact, I think "Non le manca" could mean either "She does not miss him" or "She does not miss her" because 'manca' is simply 3rd person singular with no indication of gender. :)
True. It could also mean "She does not miss it," since what she is not missing could be a thing (even though the Italian noun would have a gender).
I just had a multi choice one saying 'non le' and to choose between 'manco' and 'manca'. Both should be valid so if any are declined please report!
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Koolkaren and smeans2, I think I'm going mad! Surely "non le manca" CAN'T mean "she does not miss him". Rather, it can mean either "he misses her" or "she misses her"?
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No, "Non le manca" cannot mean "He misses her", because "manca" is the 3rd person (he/she/it) conjugation of the verb "mancare", which means not "to miss", but "to be missed by". So, in Italian, the subject of the verb is not the person doing the missing, but the person being missed. The 3rd person subject (because the conjugation is "manca") indicates that the person being missed can be any of the 3rd person possibilities (he/she/it). The object pronoun "le" means that, whatever is being missed, only "she" can be the person by whom it is being missed. So, "Non le manco" means literally "I am not being missed by her". "Non le manca" means "He/she/it is not being missed by her". Only "she" can do the missing. Sorry this is so long! :)
For me the easiest way to remember is that it is just the opposite reaction to a normal verb (like with piacere) so if: ti voglio= I want you then: ti manco=you miss me (or, to you I am missed). This is the same as piace such as: mi piace= I like it (or, to me it is pleasing)
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Great work mukkapazza...ingot coming your way. For those that are interested, this blog gives a pretty good explanation as well:
http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/mancare/
There have been some pretty negative comments about the lesson. I have found Duolingo a very challenging way to learn and there are certainly areas that could be improved. And I agree that this task (and the 'Io non gli manco' ) caused me great confusion...over an hour of research actually. But, hopefully, now I'll remember it.
By the way, piacere and mancare are not the only verbs that CAN work like this. If you have some spare time, check out verbs like convenire, interessare, importare and even restare eg. I don't care! Non mi importa! Maria only has memories left. A Maria restano solo ricordi.
I've read the posts but still confused. I translated this as "I do not miss her" and just cannot see why this is not correct.
There's a set of these verbs that do your head in this way. Piacere, mancare, bastare, etc. http://italian.about.com/od/verbs/a/italian-verb-piacere.htm
Try reading the posts again. Especially the top one. The verb is conjugated by the thing that is being missed, not the person doing the missing.
To be honest, this type of verb along with piacere (to have a liking for or pleasing to) are causing so much confusion and catching so many people out, that I think DL should have a seperate 'verb' section for them. I don't know the name of these verb types, where the 3rd person/party is the focus of the action rather than the 1st.
why is correct "he doesn't miss me"? I think that should be "non gli manco"...
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It seems so to me (see 1 month ago) and to erikalinor (see 2 months ago), except that you said "like" and I think you mean "miss". Anyway, I just clarified my question in a reply to smeans2 above. Maybe we'll get an answer from someone whose Italian is more reliable than mine. :)
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I just came back to this discussion 14 hours after posting the above comment (the one which begins "It seems so to me") in which I mention that I had just clarified my question to smeans2. Now I find the comment in which I clarified my question is nowhere to be found! So, here I go again:
In the original question that I was trying to answer in the lesson, we were given 'Non le ___'. We were then given choices as to what to put in the blank. 2 of the choices were 'manca' and 'manco'. It did not accept 'manca' as correct. With no English translation to work from, what I want to know (and erikalinor too, it seems) is why it is not correct to put 'manca'. Wouldn't that be just as correct an Italian sentence. Wouldn't 'Non le manca' (She does not miss him) be just as correct as 'Non le manco' (She does not miss me) ?
isn't it supposed to be in the plural? since it's not "non la manco" ?
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No, I believe in this sentence 'le' is the feminine singular object meaning 'to her'. The confusion lies in the fact that 'le' is also the article 'the' which is used with feminine plural nouns. :)
"le" can also be an indirect object pronoun meaning "to her"
check this http://www.cyberitalian.com/en/html/gra_prpr.html
For those that speak Spanish, change the verb miss (extranar) and instead use "Importar" o like Elotromiqui says "hacer falta" and all the problems will be resolved.
It seems to be like "piacere." "Mi piace questo" - the person doing the liking "mi" and then the appropriate form for the object of the sentence "questo." Ti manco - "you miss me." Makes sense.
Non le manca is translated to she doesn't miss her/him, right? Please any confirmation?
Yes. "Lei non lo manca" is she does not miss him. "Lei non la manca is she does not miss her"
Thank you. As I understand that "lo" is referred to him, "la" to her, the conjugation of manca follows "Lei" . In this example of "Non le manco" which is translated to she doesn't miss me, did "le" refer to me or she? and why Non le manca is wrong?Sorry, it seems that my questions are blurred but hope I succeeded to explain what I meant by my questions (I am not a native English)
Actually, I'm feeling doubtful about my previous explanation. I think "le" in the question refers to "She does not miss me," where the first person singular is referred to by verb ending. "Non le manca" is then "She/He does not miss her," whereas "Non gli manca" is "He/She does not miss him." Both can also refer to the plural third "He/She does not miss them."
Thank you for your reply. I started to understand the conjugation of mancare & piacere. Here is a lingot thanks for your time
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The answer given is she does not miss me, but in the absence of gender I answered "I am not missed". What's wrong with that answer?
Because the 'le' in that position with this verb means 'to her' http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare117a.htm So the gender is absolutely there.
Non le manco. According to the hints its "no them i miss". So the hints are wrong.
The hints don't know context. And 'le' is a very flexible word depending on where it is used and how. It can be the feminine plural definite article 'the' or it can mean 'to her'. Which depends on where it is used. The hints are only that, hints. They don't know context, so the top hint isn't necessarily right for the phrase you're using.
Because 'le' is the indirect object pronoun for 'to her' for 'to him' you need 'gli' http://italian.about.com/library/fare/blfare117a.htm
So 'To him I am not lacking' 'Non gli manco' - "He doesn't miss me"
"To her I am not lacking" 'Non le manco' - "She doesn't miss me"
I don't know if anyone has said this (or will read this as there is so much to read) but I find I helps to say to myself when I see these types of verbs OK 'Non le manco', manco = I am missed, le =by her, non =negative, so translates as 'she doesn't miss me' That works for me, J
I think I understand mukkapazza's explaination BUT the meaning quoted for mancare is 'to miss', which in english would imply a transitive verb taking a direct object - I miss her (the mistake I made) . It seems that the verb here needs to be taken as 'to be missed' an intransitive verb taking an indirect object before the verb - so 'I am not missed by her' implying 'she does not miss me'. Surely the definition of mancare should cover these uses before we make our natural mistakes. Still fun though.
Because "le" means "to her". He doesn't miss me would be "non gli manco".
doesn't/ to her/ I miss: Since mancare is a backwards verb like piacere, it becomes: 'She doesn't miss me.'
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So, io ti amo (yo te amo) means you love me ? Coz still confusing for some people out there, that doesn't learn italian or spanish
The easiest way to learn how to use mancare and piacere is to turn the sentence: manco ( i miss), le (by her, for her or to her). So: I am not missed by her=she doesn't miss me!
"Non le manco. " Translation: She does not miss me. "Non gli manco" Translation: He does not miss me.
i'm a bit confused on this one. I have tried to put the sentences in google translate at times to see if it show the same answer. It has been pretty similar. But this time google translate show, "I do not miss them." and when i but "ò" in mancò it shows She do not miss it. I know google translate isn't 100%, but it has to follow some kind of rule to go from I do not miss them, to She do not miss it. What does different with manco and mancò? or should "ò" not be used at all in that word? The doulingo translation is she does not miss me. How do you know it is a she or could I put he doesnt miss me as well? Hope someone can help on this one.
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This is how I see it:
ENGLISH
Io manco = I am needed/(desired/missed/wanted/etc).
Io non manco = I am not needed/(desired/missef/wanted/etc).
Io non manco "le" = I am not needed by/(to/for) her.
where:
"le" = to/(by/for) her/him (Use "le" as an indirect object...or adverb?).
Reverse the verb "manco" and the pronoun "le".
Io non "le" manco =
I am not (by her/him) needed ~ "She does not miss (/needs/wants/etc) me"
Lastly:
"Io non le manco" = Non le manco.
SPANISH:
Non le manco =
(Yo) No le falto (a él/ella). ~ (Ella/él) No me extraña.
(I hope I am right about being able to apply this to he/she indifferently).
Uffffff!!!!!!! :)
Mar 29th 2019.
