1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Esperanto
  4. >
  5. "Mi veturas per aŭto, biciklo…

"Mi veturas per aŭto, biciklo ktp."

Translation:I travel by car, bike, etc.

August 7, 2015

25 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/volmortanto

Kiom oni prononcas "ktp"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Ĉu vi volas diri "Kiel oni prononcas 'ktp'?"?

Mi aŭdis kaj "kaj tiel plu" kaj "ko to po". (In the second case, the accent is usually on the last 'word', which is why I spelled it as "ko to po" rather than "kotopo" which would be interpreted as "kotópo" rather than "kotopó".)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/volmortanto

Dankon, mi bedaŭras. Mi ne povas memori "demandajn vortojn" tre bone, ili estas iom malfacila, al mi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/potestasity

Thanks, I stumble across "ktp" a lot on the Esperanto Wikipedia (which I read for practice). I figured pretty quickly that it means "etc" but I was too lazy to search what it stands for. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaribbeanMax

I think it comes from the Greek word "κτλ", which means "και τα λοιπά".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nudpiedo

"ko to po"; vi ofte aŭdos ĝin :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Jes, strange; en la angla, mi neniam aŭdas "ee tee see", nek "uh ess wee" en la germana - estas ĉiam "et cetera" kaj "und so weiter".

Sed en Esperanto, ial oni ofte aŭdas "ko to po"....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aquaticsklo

I used to never even pronounce it "et cetera" until someone told me not to. Weird.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaizinM

A lot of abbreviations in English internet slang often get pronounced as they are written, though.

LOL - el-oh-el
BRB - bee-are-bee
FYI - eff-why-eye
IRL - eye-are-el
OMG - oh-em-gee
etc.

And of course there's ETA (ee-tee-ay) and ASAP (ay-sap) in standard English. I don't even know what ETA stands for, but the T probably stands for time?
(* internet research * ah, Estimated Time of Arrival, apparently)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drownloader

@RaizinM : and people get into big arguments about the pronunciation of "GIF" (which the creator, wrongly, expects to be pronounced as if it's "jraphic" [i-something] [file or format f-something]). "Lol" could become an acronym, where the abbreviation is pronounced as a word (e.g., radar, scuba, laser, ASAP), but the others only work as initialisms, pronounced as spelled-out letters, such as FBI, KGB, MD. Someone, somewhere, has probably written a paper on why CIA & IRS have never switched from initialisms to words while NASA, NAFTA, HUD and PIN ("PIN number"!) long ago did so.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaizinM

Let me quickly weigh in on the GIF debate a bit:

Every argument people use in favor of a certain pronunciation of GIF is wrong, as Idea Channel aptly explained in this video.

In short:
- The "it's not Jraphics Interchange Format" argument does not work, as Mizinamo already explained in a reply to your comment, and you admitted in reply to him.
- The "but gin is with a J sound" or "it's obviously pronounced like in gift" argument does not work, because there are plenty words that start with "gi" to support either of the two pronunciations. Gin vs. gift, giant vs. girl, giraffe vs. gismo, etc, etc.
- The "the creator said it's jif" argument does not work, because, as any dictionary editor will tell you, no single person or organization gets to decide how to pronounce words in the English language. Not even the creators of the word. There are plenty words in English that we now all pronounce differently than the person who coined the word. Like a couple hundred of the words invented by Shakespeare.

Linguistically speaking both pronunciations are equally correct. Since it's a modern acronym it doesn't have any word root or history to fall on, and the English spelling rules have too many convoluted twists, turns and exceptions to objectively say from the spelling which of the two is correct. Meaning the pronunciation is almost entirely determined by how people say it. Until either pronunciation is rarely used anymore, both are correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

The pronunciation of letters in acronyms need not have anything to do with the pronunciations of the letters in the words they came from.

If people say 'jif', it's because of that 'g' often does in English before 'i' (register, gigantic, ....), regardless of how the 'g' is pronounced in 'graphic'.

Compare 'Unicef' (which is not 'younicheff' even though 'c' comes from 'children') or 'laser' which is not 'lazzer' even though 'a' comes from 'amplification' and not 'aymplification') or 'PIN' which is not 'pine' even though the 'i' is from 'identification'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drownloader

Mizinamo--true about the letters in initialisms; I was being facetious about "jraphic."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sinjoreto

Eble mi estas malfrua, sed mi ĵus volis diri, ke estas la sama en la filipina lingvo. Atbp. (etc.) estas prononcata kiel "At iba pa" (and others), anstataŭe kiel "ey-ti-bi-pi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ponnuki

I wanted to ask what ktp abbreviated, but I have checked it myself now, and it's "kaj tiel plu" (and such more)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Or "and thus further"... quite possibly a translation of German "und so weiter".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaizinM

Or "and so forth" or "and so on", which are also literal translations of "kaj tiel plu". And the literal meaning of the French "et ainsi de suite" comes very close, too.

But I think you're right in that the Esperanto expression was quite possibly originally translated from the German expression. Out of the main languages that influenced Esperanto vocabulary (French, German, Latin, and a dash of English), German comes closest in literal meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zerr_

In an Esperanto book I have, it lists "kaj cetero" as another translation for "et cetera". Would "kc" work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RandomCanadian12

I think "kaj cetero" is a literal translation from latin "et cetera". I think you should stick with ktp


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/claire_resurgent

PIV uses "ks" (kaj similaj)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaizinM

Yeah, k.s. has a lot of overlap in meaning with ktp. But I guess you can only use k.s. in an unordered list. Because "and similar" doesn't work in ordered lists, like if you say "the letters of the English alphabet are A, B, C, D, E, and similar" or "the table of four is 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, and similar." You need an "and so on" there.

By the way, PMEG uses both "k.s." and "k.t.p." And almost the same amount, in fact.
k.t.p. site:bertilow.com/pmeg gives 105 Google results, and k.s. site:bertilow.com/pmeg gives 120.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lingvulino

You can use it. It is correct. It is not common and it would be more formal, though "kaj tiel plu" is not overly informal, so it is the standard form to use.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brauxljo

Can verturi be to venture?

Learn Esperanto in just 5 minutes a day. For free.