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"Vi devus ensaluti la tujmesaĝilon."

Translation:You should log in to the instant messenger.

August 12, 2015

7 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhL7jn1gj98

Why "Vi devus ensaluti la tujmesaĝilon" and not "Vi devus ensaluti AL la tujmesaĝilon" ou "Vi devus ensaluti je la tujmesaĝilon" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I don't think there's a good answer for this besides "because '(en)saluti' is transitive".

Why are you afraid OF something and not afraid FROM something? Why do you marry someone and not marry WITH someone? Why do you answer a question and not answer TO a question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Renardo_11

It is possible to say “al la tujmesaĝilo” and even “je la tujmesaĝilo” but "al" and “je” do not take an accusative of direction. "al" does not need it because it expresses direction by itself; “je” does not take it because it does not express a location.

The fact that “(en)saluti” is transitive does not mean that you cannot replace the accusative with a preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

AFAIK you express logging in into something by ensaluti en la tujmesaĝilon. That is with metamorphic movement into a system. I couldn't find any hits in Tekstaro for ensalut/, but when I googled for it (hint: I used Kukolo), all I could find was either with en + -n or some single cases of ĉe (if any object at all). None with a direct object.

While you can argue, that any preposition can be replaced with an accusative (la regulo numero 14), this has changed over time and in contemporary use you don't have so much freedom any longer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Renardo_11

Sorry, according to the 16 rules from Wikipedia not any preposition can be replaced with the accusative but just the preposition “je.”

14 • Ĉiu prepozicio havas difinitan kaj konstantan signifon; sed se ni devas uzi ian prepozicion kaj la rekta senco ne montras al ni, kian nome prepozicion ni devas preni, tiam ni uzas la prepozicion je, kiu memstaran signifon ne havas. Anstataŭ la prepozicio je oni povas ankaŭ uzi la akuzativon sen prepozicio. [emphasis by me]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juha_Metsakallas

Edited 2020-03-30:

I was merely trying to figure out, why or how someone has invented an expression "ensaluti la tujmesaĝilon" instead of in my opinion the more recommendable "ensaluti en la tujmesaĝilon".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Renardo_11

By all means – but rule no. 14 simply does not say that “any preposition can be replaced with an accusative,” and such rumours are almost impossible to control on Duolingo. Just look how many posts claim that “word order does not matter in Esperanto.”

What shall we do when a learner translates “the chair is between the windows” by “la seĝo estas la fenestrojn,” claiming that “inter” can be replaced by an accusative?

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